1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Airflow Questions/Ideas/Diagrams - 56k Warning

Discussion in 'Hardware' started by Zurechial, 29 Apr 2007.

  1. Zurechial

    Zurechial Elitist

    Joined:
    21 Mar 2007
    Posts:
    2,045
    Likes Received:
    99
    I'm posting this here as I'm looking for advice on my system, it's not a project log....yet. ;)

    Rather than trying to give an idea of the airflow of my system in text, I've drawn some diagrams here with Sketchup & PSP:

    Case: Silverstone Temjin-06

    Internals shown below are my build plans for next month:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]


    The first thing you'll notice about the system is that the internals are reversed, and the mainboard is mounted on the opposite side to a standard ATX rig.
    I've been using this case for almost 2 years now and I love it, but the non-standard airflow of the case leaves me with a few questions I was hoping someone else could clear up.
    Currently I'm using the exact same layout, but with these changes:
    -A64 3500+ in place of the C2D, using a Zalman 7700B Cooler
    -1 Gb of DDR1
    -Only one 7900GT instead of two
    -Thermaltake PurePower Butterfly 480w PSU (or should that be POS? :rolleyes: )

    I have the A64 overclocked to 2497MHz (Multi 11 x 297 FSB) at 1.5v and the 7900GT overclocked to 530/1440 (Won't go any higher without a voltmod :( )
    The CPU idles around 38C and hits about 58C under load, while the 7900GT idles around 40C and hits about 60C under load.
    Those temperatures lead me to think that the airflow of my system is adequate, but with room for improvement, especially when considering that the C2D and an extra 7900GT will considerably add to the amount of heat generated.
    Right now, the 120mm fans are being used to cool the ram & CPU, but without the included air-shroud by Silverstone, as it doesn't fit over the Zalman CPU cooler
    For the most part, the 80mm intake fan is left to cool the mainboard, GPU & hard-drives, while the Thermaltake PSU is functioning as an exhaust fan (80mm intake on the underside, 80mm exhaust on the rear).

    I worry that there's a hotspot in and around the GPUs, as the only exhaust for that area of the system is the PSU. An 80mm fan exhaust fan won't fit into the PCI slots near the cards, so I'm unsure what to do there.

    Thus, my question is; what can I do to improve the airflow of this system?
    I'd prefer to keep this case right now rather than get a new one, as I'm fond of it (clean looks, lots of room, solid & sturdy) and I won't be able to afford a new high-end case for a while.

    I've considered watercooling, but the risk of leaks destroying my components is a major downside to me. Unlike seemingly many enthusiasts, I can't afford to replace high-end components on a whim as I'm a lowly student on terrible wages, so each component costs a fortune, relatively speaking.
    Also, the issue of maintenance puts me off watercooling, though I'm not fully clued-in as to what's involved in that regard so I'm not certain.

    Any and all advice appreciated. :D

    (I'll upload the case model to the components collection once it's finished and the list of credits for parts used has been compiled ;) )
     
    Last edited: 29 Apr 2007
  2. dragontail

    dragontail 5bet Bluffer

    Joined:
    9 Jun 2005
    Posts:
    1,779
    Likes Received:
    30
    If you do update to two GFX cards, then you will notice a pretty big hit round that area, including the hard drives, as your PSU will be your only exhaust point, as you rightly said. That will result in your PSU increasing in fan RPM I'm sure, which will increase the DBA. As a guide, try to keep hard drives below 50*C, as if they stay above this, the chances of failure increases greatly.

    If I was you, I would cut a hole between the bottom of your PSU and the top of your motherboard on the rear of your case, and install an appropriate sized fan, which would help a lot. From your diagram, hopefully you can squeeze a 80mm fan in there, which would definitely reduce the hotspot.
     
  3. Zurechial

    Zurechial Elitist

    Joined:
    21 Mar 2007
    Posts:
    2,045
    Likes Received:
    99
    The upgrade to a 2nd 7900GT is definite since I already have the 2nd card, I just don't have a mainboard that supports SLI :hehe:

    You know, I really don't know why, but I hadn't thought of that..
    It seems obvious now that you say it, but I didn't think of it. :duh:

    Looking at the case and the dimensions, I could fit an 80mm or 92mm fan on the inside, right inside the drive cage, above the GPUs.
    Alternatively, I could fit a 120mm fan in the same place, but on the outside of the case.
    Either way, it'd be an exhaust and would probably help greatly with the GPUs, and at least one of the hard drives directly.
    Thanks for the idea. :D

    I'd love to try watercooling, but the expense and risk of it is really off-putting..
     
  4. Zyphron

    Zyphron New Member

    Joined:
    26 Apr 2007
    Posts:
    25
    Likes Received:
    0
    why not try a Bracket that would put some airflow on those cards? they make ones to fit up to 120 mm

    yes a 2nd fan placed on the rear of the case left of 8 would do some good

    or how bout a 5.25 intake? looks like you have 3 bays free, could do a single bay or mod a 120 to fit in there easily
     
  5. Zurechial

    Zurechial Elitist

    Joined:
    21 Mar 2007
    Posts:
    2,045
    Likes Received:
    99
    I Sketchup'd the 92mm fan into the drive cage, should fit perfectly so I'll definitely do that, thanks for the idea!

    [​IMG]

    Thanks for the ideas Zyphron - A bay mod might work, but I'll be adding a 5.25 inch card-reader into one of those bays, and may need another for another optical drive in the future so I'm not sure if it's feasible.

    I like the idea of putting a fan into a bracket over the GPUs, but I think I'll make the bracket myself, as I have an idea for it already...
    Sketchup pending! :D
     
    Last edited: 29 Apr 2007
  6. Zurechial

    Zurechial Elitist

    Joined:
    21 Mar 2007
    Posts:
    2,045
    Likes Received:
    99
    I've Sketchup'd a model for a PCI Fan bracket that I'll use to cool the GPUs.
    Thanks to Zyphron for the idea. :D

    I've designed it to fit a 120mm fan, and added a shroud to focus the airflow directly out of the case through the grill above the expansion slots.

    Bracket + Shroud:
    [​IMG]

    Mounted in case:
    [​IMG]

    The above shots show it transparently, to give an idea of the design.
    The finished part will probably be black aluminium instead:
    [​IMG]

    I'd prefer to make the shroud out of acrylic, but I honestly wouldn't have enough confidence in my abilities with acrylic to make something like that. :(

    Now with those 2 ideas, I have the means to keep my hard drives cool as well as my GPUs, and remove that hotspot from the system. :D

    (This thread has almost become a project log... oops. :eyebrow: )
     
  7. Bbq.of.DooM

    Bbq.of.DooM Custom User Title

    Joined:
    12 Feb 2005
    Posts:
    1,477
    Likes Received:
    1
    I suggest setting the lower fans to intake, so you have two intakes (one in the front and one at the back) and the exhaust as the psu and the 92mm by the hard drives.
     
  8. Zurechial

    Zurechial Elitist

    Joined:
    21 Mar 2007
    Posts:
    2,045
    Likes Received:
    99
    I hadn't thought of that, but that makes a lot of sense in the new arrangement, Thanks Bbq! :D

    I realised also that the space where I was putting the new 92mm fan is more than big enough to fit 2 of them, so I may put in a 2nd one.
    My only concern there is the potential increase in noise.
    The fan count would be as follows:

    120mm x 4 (including PSU)
    92mm x 2
    80mm x 1
    Zalman CNPS 9700 CPU Cooler x 1
    Zalman Vf900 GPU Cooler x 2

    :blah:

    Does brand-name/OEM matter much when it comes to fans or is it a matter of just taking whatever you can find the cheapest?

    I've been looking at Zalman fans, as one would assume Zalman fans would be of high quality, but would cheap Akasa fans do the same job, or would they be noisier and less effective?

    My system currently sounds like a jet engine if I increase the voltage to the two 80mm PSU fans, and though I'm used to it by now, I'd really rather not have to use headphones all the time. :hehe:
     
  9. Krikkit

    Krikkit All glory to the hypnotoad! Super Moderator

    Joined:
    21 Jan 2003
    Posts:
    23,453
    Likes Received:
    368
    It's all about noise-rating tbh. If you're not fussed, get a noisy fan and a Zalman fancontroller thingy (or similar), otherwise you'll have to bum off the ratings of each fan to make sure it's right.
     
  10. Zurechial

    Zurechial Elitist

    Joined:
    21 Mar 2007
    Posts:
    2,045
    Likes Received:
    99
    Thanks for the tip Krikkit!
    I have 2 of those Zalman Fan-Mate controllers already (One from Vf900, another from Cu-7700B) but I'm not fond of their design.
    I'd rather use a bay-mounted fan controller, since it'd be a more convenient and elegant method.

    I was looking at getting one of these:

    http://komplett.ie/k/ki.asp?sku=314323

    Anyone know if they're worth the money or not?

    The combination of card-reader and fan controller seems quite handy for me, since I use CompactFlash and Memory Pro Duo cards a lot (for my Synth and my Phone).

    Looking at the prices on the Zalman fans, €8 for a 120mm, €7 for a 92mm - Can't really go wrong with those prices and I'm not interested in having LEDs on the fans, so I may as well stick with Zalman, hell, this case should really be sponsored by them. :hehe:
     
  11. Bluephoenix

    Bluephoenix Spoon? What spoon?

    Joined:
    3 Dec 2006
    Posts:
    968
    Likes Received:
    1
    I say thermaltake thunderblades.

    their blade design scales the flow well (not a sharp drop as with most.) when throttled with a controller, and the noise is low on maximum anyway.

    I won't explain the aerodynamics behind it (would take several posts), but I've tested the conclusion myself in the aerospace lab and found it to be accurate.

    at max the 120mm variant gives 76cfm for 21dB

    for a controller nothing beats zalman's MFC-01
     
  12. Krikkit

    Krikkit All glory to the hypnotoad! Super Moderator

    Joined:
    21 Jan 2003
    Posts:
    23,453
    Likes Received:
    368
    I love the fanmate thingies - I use them and my motherboard, and all 8 fans in my case are plenty quiet enough that only my WC pump can be heard from my system. :D

    Quiet + powerful PC's rawk. :thumb:
     
  13. Zurechial

    Zurechial Elitist

    Joined:
    21 Mar 2007
    Posts:
    2,045
    Likes Received:
    99
    The Thunderblades sound good, Bluephoenix, but I can't find them for sale anywhere conveniently..
    It'll be €22 for me to get 2x 92mm and 1x 120mm Zalman fans from Komplett.ie with essentially 'free' delivery, whereas ordering from just about any other supplier would cost me extra in exchange rates and delivery..
    Plus, for €7/€8 per fan, I can't really go wrong. Even if they don't suit, it won't have broken the bank. :hehe:

    Does anyone know how many fan headers the nForce 680i boards from XFX or EVGA have?
    Controlling the fans from the mainboard by temperature would be ideal, but I doubt any mainboard would have enough fan headers to manage all the fans that I'm planning for. :hehe:

    Watercooling is starting to look more and more like an option here... :eyebrow:
     
  14. dragontail

    dragontail 5bet Bluffer

    Joined:
    9 Jun 2005
    Posts:
    1,779
    Likes Received:
    30
    For fans, check out SPCR. Most CFMs/DBas stated by manufacturers are a load of crap to put it bluntly. Sort of like your generic PSU that states it's 500W when it clearly would blow up if you tried to draw more than 300W sort of thing.

    In terms of my knowledge, the Sharkoon Silent Eagle series are one of the best. Get the 2000RPM one, and you can just fan controller it down if it's too loud. (It's deathly silent at 1000RPM from personal experience). Alternatively, the Nexus / Yate Loons are good, as well as the some of the Scythes. Zalman's are okay, but usually you can find a cheaper and better option elsewhere (like most Zalman stuff then lol). Avoid SilentX fans, they claim to move 60CFM at 14DBa or something silly, and when SPCR tested it, it was nowhere near it's stated specs. I'm not sure about the Thunderblades, but I wouldn't trust Thermaltake's specs that much.

    Btw, for watercooling, what's your budget? If you want watercooling, avoid all the budget crap and go straight to the higher end stuff. The entry water cooling are proven to be worse than high end air cooling, with a huge premium stuck on.
     

Share This Page