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Cooling Alphacool SUCK.

Discussion in 'Hardware' started by Vault-Tec, 27 Feb 2018.

  1. Vault-Tec

    Vault-Tec Green Plastic Watering Can

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    I'm actually not you know. Just FYI here are the PMs received over the matter.

    [​IMG]

    They basically told her to naff off. IE - "We will cover what is made by us but that's where it ends".

    And do you know what? 99.9999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999% of the world's population would say "meh, doesn't affect me screw it CBA".

    So basically am I going to sit here and watch AC actually do something now that I have raised this on every forum I post on, trying to turn it around and make me look like the bad guy? I don't think so !

    I've lost jobs in the past because I've seen people treated badly (bullied and so on) and I have stood up for them. I don't like seeing it, ever. lol some one actually called me a keyboard warrior yesterday.

    But that's just it, isn't it eh? as long as it doesn't affect me that's OK because that is how the world is these days.

    Just remember the ONLY reason that AC UK (or their salesman or rep or what not) even contacted Lucy is because of the stink I have created over it. Otherwise they would have fobbed her off and brushed it under the carpet like everything else these days in this "Daren't complain !" world we live in.

    Do you know how many times I have bought PC products only to have been massively underwhelmed and disappointed when they arrive? lots. Why? lol because even the reviewers and YT celebs are being bought. Why do you think I come here? and read CPC every month? because basically it's the last bastion of reasonable truth in this industry. Every one else has been bought off and bribed with free gear etc.
     
  2. Vault-Tec

    Vault-Tec Green Plastic Watering Can

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    BTW this here is why AC UK contacted Lucy.

    [​IMG]

    I won't even bother hiding my name because I totally stand by posting that. They were trying to pull a Frito Bandito jobby on her and I called BS.

    I couldn't care if JFC himself worked for or endorsed AC I will never buy anything else they make either. It isn't personal, I actually like David but the three AC products I have owned have been a bit crap.

    DCLT pump number 1 - wires came off. This is because they come straight off the rear mounted PCB and have no tug protection or anything else.

    DCLT pump number two

    [​IMG]

    As you can see they sorta kinda did something about it. IE slapped on this rubber thing that basically doesn't clip into anything or stop the problem.

    Their res? what a joke. It's almost impossible to prime because of the way the pump is fed.

    So yeah, that is my personal experience with them.
     
    Last edited: 28 Feb 2018
  3. MLyons

    MLyons Half dev, Half doge. Staff Administrator Super Moderator Moderator

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    Screenshots of PMs which again is information not public and therefore is null and void. I'm going on information that we can all publicly see. If i posted a screenshot of PMs between me and let me pick a name out of my magic machine quickly *beep *boop *beep AMD and posted them, they could be of anything ranging from here's our new roadmap, to here are your bribes to here are details on your RMA to no comment. They mean nothing to this conversation.
    As they legally can do
    Sweet. You don't need to make a Alphacool sucks post.
    A company made a mistake. Shock horror. Just like every single other company.
    I directly quoted her essentially saying they are handling it pretty well and she doesn't expect them to replace stuff. They even said on the other forum that you making a big fuss may of hurt her chances of getting a refund.
     
  4. Vault-Tec

    Vault-Tec Green Plastic Watering Can

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    Let me put this into a timeline so you understand.

    Part fails about a week ago. Alphacool are contacted, they ask for lots of photos and information. If you want to know roughly when please feel free to check the "What is ruining your life right now" thread where I posted the pic ages ago.
    After all of which they turn around and say, basically "It is not our problem about any damaged parts you may have, other than the ones we sold you".
    However, Alphacool then decide to put a recall on all of the fittings. So they post it on their Facebook page.So they have obviously realised and somewhat accepted their design error.
    I then post the photo, basically telling every one why they have been recalled.
    Lucy asks me to remove her email as it contained personal info (on FB) I agreed.
    David is obviously contacted, by Alphacool, to deal with the matter (because obviously they realise now it is going viral and their original attitude may have sucked balls after all).
    David gets involved and offers Lucy £100 in vouchers.

    OK?

    Now, we shall tackle the legal side. If you have a product that was so poorly designed you have to redesign it and recall it you are 100%, bang to rights responsible.

    Let me give you an example. Last week I was watching Forensic Detectives and in the mid 90s an old lady was found dead in her car. Well, "found" would be an overstatement as her car had basically turned into a fireball and burnt her to a crisp. Her daughter was then charged with Arson, and murder, and insurance fraud, and then thrown in jail. However, it then came to light that certain Mercury (American car company same as Ford but make slightly more acceptable vehicles) ignition switches over heated and caught fire inside the steering column.

    http://articles.latimes.com/1996-04-26/news/mn-63066_1_million-ford-vehicles

    They then realise that this ignition switch was in the car she died in. They then did some forensic testing, and what they thought were flash marks from accelerant was actually where the column (plastic) had melted into puddles and set fire to the carpet.

    But Ford Motor Co had recalled them all and so they can wipe their hands of it yes? actually no, they are then fully and legally responsible for the fault and any damages it may have caused. They were taken to court, sued, and handed over millions of dollars.

    I'm not even sure why Alphacool acted like that in the first place. Maybe it was because they didn't want to have to use their insurance, possibly leading to a higher premium?

    Also - You and I both know that if David was not involved in this you wouldn't give a toss. Please don't make that a reason why a company is not guilty of any wrong doing. This has nothing to do with David, and, tbh I feel bad it's him who has to basically play the "public face" who has to sort this mess out. They've obviously lumped it onto him but should have sorted it long before any of that.
     
  5. Mister_Tad

    Mister_Tad Super Moderator Super Moderator

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    ... you're comparing a woman dying due to a fault in a car to a couple of wet components due to a fault in a block.

    Totally the same thing.
     
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  6. Vault-Tec

    Vault-Tec Green Plastic Watering Can

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    I'm comparing liability when you design a product with a flaw. You're right though, it is totally the same thing.

    Ed. And it could have even led to similar, equally catastrophic circumstances too.
     
  7. Mister_Tad

    Mister_Tad Super Moderator Super Moderator

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    So...

    - The heavily regulated auto industry against a niche-of-niche-of-niche product (where I suspect there's a "watercooling carries risk" clause somewhere in the fine print)

    - Someone getting killed, burned to death against the possibility (as yet untested AFAIK?) of some dead components, and certainty of a bit of inconvenience

    - A legal case against a few strongly worded PMs and emails exchanged.

    Yes, you're right, same thing.

    If you think they're legally liable for any damage, then go after them legally.

    Any company can be guilty of bad design, and bad customer service - from the looks of things here they've come good for the user's standpoint eventually, even if it took some time to get there. If they offer anything more it's going to be because of your social media crusade, rather than it being the right thing to do. You probably think that's a good thing, but it really isn't.
     
  8. true_gamer

    true_gamer Well-Known Member

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    When I've built water cooling systems with multiple GPU's, I've always gone for a proper bridge, rather than the cheap dodgy way of chain GPU's together in a loop.

    This,
    [​IMG]

    Rather than this...
    [​IMG]
     
  9. Vault-Tec

    Vault-Tec Green Plastic Watering Can

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    Yup. TBH with all of the blocks I have had from all of the different manus I have always had the end ports (which is what is used when fitting an SLi bridge) bolt on. Even EK use three bolts to hold that small port on.

    [​IMG]

    And there has to be a good reason for that tbh. I had to change the port on my Aquacomputer block too (because I have an actively water cooled back plate) and again, two ruddy long bolts.
     
  10. Mister_Tad

    Mister_Tad Super Moderator Super Moderator

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    When I watercooled (before fancy schmancy stuff like that was about), I tightened jubilee clips around every fitting to within an inch of their life. Probably on the brink of damaging the barb/tube/clip and causing a disaster itself to be honest.

    Water inside PCs was not natural then, it's not natural now.
     
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  11. MLyons

    MLyons Half dev, Half doge. Staff Administrator Super Moderator Moderator

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    What about these supposed non-conductive fluids? Would that prevent an issue if the loop did spring a leak.
     
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  12. Vault-Tec

    Vault-Tec Green Plastic Watering Can

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    That depends. Apparently all WC coolants become conductive over time. It may be all water based coolants, I have not spent the hours it would require digging to find out. Either way you don't want it happening at all, because it is a massive PITA.

    No I don't think it is a good thing and I don't like any of it, contrary to what you might think. As for coming good eventually? they should have come good in the first place. It shouldn't have taken this at all. However, it was at the point where communication had stopped and they had offered up their "Solution" so there was nothing to lose.

    Look, I am not going to get into personal details about who this happened to but let's just say there is a reason I did that. Having said that I would have done the same thing for a lot of people. Not all, but you get my drift. I don't like seeing things like this happen and I don't like seeing people screwed over.
     
  13. Mister_Tad

    Mister_Tad Super Moderator Super Moderator

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    Oh, they should have come good in the first place, if not because it was the right thing to do, just in hope of preventing the bad publicity in a small and well-connected community.

    Social media campaigns crying injustice are just one of those things that grind my gears though.
     
  14. Vault-Tec

    Vault-Tec Green Plastic Watering Can

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    Nobody in this small and well connected community wants parts that leak. At least not through any fault of their own. We've all had leaks it's a rite of passage however it is usually user error. I've had to drain and refill a loop five times now because of leaks. It's always been the same thing, rotaries that leak if you put any form of lateral pressure on them at all. Kinda like these ones from XSPC. I bought 5 of these, drained and refilled the loop 4 times trying all of them, all the same.

    [​IMG]

    I posted about that too, nobody said anything. Thankfully I was able to remove the lateral pressure completely (which was impossible with a 45 deg I had before because the hose came in like this...)

    [​IMG]

    But I eventually found a 45 that didn't leak, even with lateral pressure. However, *none* of the Monsoon 45' or 90' I have leak. You could literally hang from them and they won't squeeze a drop. So it just comes down, again, to poor design.

    If it takes a "social media campaign" to get them to do the right thing then so be it. If there is a product out there that does this then we should all know about it, one way or another.

    I clearly remember typing into Google "45 degree fittings that don't leak" and found a post from Anthony a few years ago on this forum asking just that question, then saying "I have pretty much tried every type and brand and they all leak". Since the forum re-jig though I can no longer find it.
     
  15. edzieba

    edzieba Virtual Realist

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    ... For the product itself. There is naff-all responsibility for replacing any other parts, unless expressly indicated by the warranty. Hence why all WC kit has the big-ass disclaimer telling you that squirting water around inside a main-connected device is at your own risk. This is universal among WC equipment providers (including sealed AIOs): the blanket response is "no other parts will be covered", with some providers handling things on a case-by-case basis at their discretion.

    WC equipment is not a car, it's an aftermarket mod. Manufacturers of aftermarket mods will not warranty components damaged in your car, after all.
     
  16. Anfield

    Anfield Well-Known Member

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    While it happened to be perfectly justified in this case as there was a blatantly obvious design flaw, you have to remember that there have been thousands of 100% unjustified social media campaigns against Companies, like for example when reddit tried to wreck Noctua over nothing. So not much of a surprise that people are jaded when it comes to using social media to manipulate companies into doing something.
     
  17. true_gamer

    true_gamer Well-Known Member

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    Yep, my first loop was on a S775 with the first Swiftech Apogee GTX water block, using the good old jubilee clips. (Shame I can't find a pic of my rig from back then, but then I'm sure it would look like crap, with no cable management or braiding like today's custom PC's... :D )

    [​IMG]
     
  18. Mister_Tad

    Mister_Tad Super Moderator Super Moderator

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    [​IMG]

    Watercooling. 2004-style.

    Danger Den TDX-SS (s478)
    Danger Den NV-68
    Eheim 1250
    Thermochill 120.2

    Leaks: Zero (ok, lies... but only ever during leak testing... all 72 hours of it)

    Those were the days.
     
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  19. yuusou

    yuusou Well-Known Member

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    Damn those sexy cold cathode lights.
     
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  20. Mister_Tad

    Mister_Tad Super Moderator Super Moderator

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    Damn straight! There was a time when just a few lights and windows was all it took to net you CustomPC mod of the month and ~£1500 of prize kit :lol:
     
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