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News AMD details Ryzen chipsets, promises no multiplier locks

Discussion in 'Article Discussion' started by Gareth Halfacree, 9 Jan 2017.

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  1. Gareth Halfacree

    Gareth Halfacree WIIGII! Lover of bit-tech Administrator Super Moderator Moderator

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    Gareth Halfacree, 9 Jan 2017
    #1
  2. Parge

    Parge the worst Super Moderator

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    Enthusiast SFF - sounds exciting for us ITX fans! Can't see me changing up from a 5820k but it sure will be good to give Intel a bit of competition.
     
    Parge, 9 Jan 2017
    #2
  3. Gareth Halfacree

    Gareth Halfacree WIIGII! Lover of bit-tech Administrator Super Moderator Moderator

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    Aye, but it's a shame there's no native USB 3.1 Gen 2 on that one. Living-room SFF is exactly the sort of device that benefits most from having a nice high-speed multi-function USB Type-C port or two on it!
     
    Gareth Halfacree, 9 Jan 2017
    #3
  4. jinq-sea

    jinq-sea 'write that down in your copy book' Super Moderator

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    Exactly. I thought this was quite a weird omission to be honest!
     
    jinq-sea, 9 Jan 2017
    #4
  5. Vault-Tec

    Vault-Tec Green Plastic Watering Can

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    Yeah that kinda sucks. However, it's good to see they have taken a safer and more mature approach to AM4. I can not even begin to tell you how many boards that supposedly supported the FX 8 chips made their way off of the production line with a snowflake's chance in heck of ever running them at their stock speed, let alone overclocked ! Talk about VRM throttling !

    Some cases were even worse though. Apparently some of MSI's AM3 boards caught fire if you overclocked a FX8 with them.

    Yeah, that whole debacle is best avoided this time around. Maybe AMD have speculated to board partners that they must fit adequate power phases to boards that overclock? a step in the right direction IMO.
     
    Vault-Tec, 9 Jan 2017
    #5
  6. Corky42

    Corky42 Where's walle?

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    Is it because the SFF X300 doesn't have a chipset (southbridge), afaik the SFF boards depend entirely on the CPU (northbridge) for their connectivity.
     
    Corky42, 9 Jan 2017
    #6
  7. bawjaws

    bawjaws Multimodder

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    Ooh, look - the enthusiast AMD chipset is X370, but Intel's equivalent is Z270. Now, does that mean that AMD is 100 better, or that Intel is better because Z comes after X? So confusing :D

    Seriously, though, naming your chipsets as 3xx because Intel's current offerings are 2xx is pretty bloody lame, AMD :D
     
    bawjaws, 9 Jan 2017
    #7
  8. jinq-sea

    jinq-sea 'write that down in your copy book' Super Moderator

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    Aha! While that makes sense to save PCB real-estate, it's a bit of a shame it means a feature sacrifice. Never mind :(
     
    jinq-sea, 9 Jan 2017
    #8
  9. Corky42

    Corky42 Where's walle?

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    @bawjaws, Doesn't the letter thing only work with graphic cards, i got an extra 5fps just from covering my GPU with stick on letters. ;)
     
    Corky42, 9 Jan 2017
    #9
  10. bawjaws

    bawjaws Multimodder

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    I painted mine red. Red ones go faster, everyone know that!
     
    bawjaws, 9 Jan 2017
    #10
  11. hyperion

    hyperion Minimodder

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    Wishful thinking but if AMD supports AM4 anywhere near as long as AM3+ then I wouldn't spending a bit more on a mobo assuming it carries me through an upgrade.
     
    hyperion, 9 Jan 2017
    #11
  12. Gareth Halfacree

    Gareth Halfacree WIIGII! Lover of bit-tech Administrator Super Moderator Moderator

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    Yeah, nothing uses USB Type C! Apart from my phone, of course. And some laptops, including Apple's latest. And Dell's new monitor. And a bunch of other monitors. And external hard drives. And external flash drives. And some cameras. And...

    Actually, there's quite a lot of stuff that uses USB Type C, now I come to think of it - and there's more launching all the time. Huh. Guess that's why AMD is crowing about having native USB 3.1 Gen 2 support on its full-size systems, then.
     
    Gareth Halfacree, 9 Jan 2017
    #12
  13. spolsh

    spolsh Multimodder

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    Hmmm, is there some reason a person couldn't get a cable with the more normal USB type connector on one end ? or does type C cable have to be the same on both ends ?
     
    spolsh, 10 Jan 2017
    #13
  14. perplekks45

    perplekks45 LIKE AN ANIMAL!

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    No, it doesn't. But the benefits you get from type C just won't be there, will they?

    Given that 'enthusiasts' generally also tend to be early adopters in other areas of the electronical equipment markets I don't really see the reason behind the decision to drop type C from their SFF offering.

    Also, while not really a showstopper, the decision to make SLI and Crossfire use a 2 x 8 lane setup doesn't really smell like longevity for this chipset. We don't NEED more than 2 x 8 right now for almost all scenarios I can think of, but what about in 3 years time? What if AMD actually manages to release a properly competing GPU and we will see large(r) strides in GPU development over the next few years? Will 2 x 8 still be enough? Or does AMD just want their customers to upgrade to the next chipset in line in 2020?
     
    perplekks45, 10 Jan 2017
    #14
  15. Corky42

    Corky42 Where's walle?

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    Nothings stopping MoBo manufactures from sticking a USB 3.1g2 chip on a SFF board though is there?
    I mean technically can that be done or is something preventing them from doing it.

    They (AMD) have said they expect Ryzen and AM4 to have a 4 year lifetime so what happens in 2020 is anyone's guess. :)
     
    Last edited: 10 Jan 2017
    Corky42, 10 Jan 2017
    #15
  16. Anfield

    Anfield Multimodder

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    Pci Express 4 will be here in much less than three 3 years.
     
    Anfield, 10 Jan 2017
    #16
  17. faugusztin

    faugusztin I *am* the guy with two left hands

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    To be fair, none of that actually uses USB 3.1 Gen 2, and neither current Intel boards support most of those features.

    Most USB Type C phones still use USB 2.0 speeds, some use 3.1 Gen 1. No issue there then. Sure, some future proofing would be nice, but oh well.
    Most USB Type C ports on computers cannot charge laptops, as they usually require the USB Power Delivery levels PC's do not provide. I doubt we will see a 20V/5A output from a PC USB Type C port anytime soon. And even the 12V/5A is doubtful.
    And finally, monitors. How many of the USB Type C connectors on PCs actually support DisplayPort alternate mode ? Outside of the boards which have the Thunderbolt controller i don't think any do.

    Problem are the alternate modes of USB Type C, you cannot do that with USB Type A to type C adapter. There is no way to make USB Type A talk HDMI/DP/Thunderbolt alternate mode.
     
    faugusztin, 10 Jan 2017
    #17
  18. Gareth Halfacree

    Gareth Halfacree WIIGII! Lover of bit-tech Administrator Super Moderator Moderator

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    Untrue. Just with a quick Amazon search I can pull up the StarTech USB 3.1 Gen 2 Dual-Bay Hard Drive Dock, USB 3.1 Gen 2 2.5" SATA Adaptor Cable, M.2 NGFF USB 3.1 Gen 2 SATA Enclosure and Aluminium USB 3.1 Gen 2 2.5" SATA Drive Enclosure, the SanDisk Extreme 900 Portable SSD, the Lacie Chrome 1TB Desktop Solid State Drive, the Axtremex Micro SSD USB 3.1 Gen 2 USB-C External Solid State Drive, the AData SE730 Type-C External SSD, and the TerraMaster D2-310 USB Type C External Hard Drive RAID Enclosure USB 3.1 Gen 2.

    That's even before looking at stuff not yet available in the UK. If we widen our search, there's the Blue Eye Thunderdisk family, the Cru ToughTech Duo C, the G-Drive Slim SSD USB-C, and the Netac Z5 - not even counting laptops with USB 3.1 Gen 2 support, like Apple's new MacBooks.

    USB Type C is exclusively available to USB 3.0/3.1 adopters, so that's also untrue. As for the phones themselves using slower-than-Gen-2 throughput, I'll grant you that - but when USB 3.0 was first hitting motherboards you could make the same argument. "Hey, none of my devices are USB 3.0, so what's the point?" Then you could do the same for USB 2.0, and USB 1.2, and eventually we're all connecting our smartphones to our PCs over RS232 'cos nobody bought anything better.
    So, outside of the boards which do support it nothing supports it? :p

    Personally, when I come to upgrade, I'll be buying a device with USB 3.1 Gen 2. Why? Well, I might not have any USB 3.1 Gen 2 devices right now, but I've been using this desktop for, what, three years? Four? At some point in the next half-decade I'm likely to buy a new phone, camera, flash drive, external hard drive, whatever - and it'd be nice if I weren't running it at half its potential throughput 'cos my system doesn't have USB 3.1 Gen 2. It was a good few years after getting my first system with USB 3.0 on it that I got my first USB 3.0 device, to prove my point...
     
    Gareth Halfacree, 10 Jan 2017
    #18
  19. Vault-Tec

    Vault-Tec Green Plastic Watering Can

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    I've got one USB3 device and I didn't even buy it :D

    I never use it either (external drive).
     
    Vault-Tec, 10 Jan 2017
    #19
  20. Gareth Halfacree

    Gareth Halfacree WIIGII! Lover of bit-tech Administrator Super Moderator Moderator

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    Show me where I said that a living room SFF machine should only have USB Type C. What's that? You can't? 'Cos I didn't say that. I said, and I quote, "Living-room SFF is exactly the sort of device that benefits most from having a nice high-speed multi-function USB Type-C port or two on it."
    Except for every single device I gave you links to, which are all USB 3.1 Gen 2. Oh, and the phone in my pocket, which definitely ain't Thunderbolt.
    What bollocks - and I've linked you to flash sticks with USB Type C. At the moment, USB 3.1 Gen 1 and Gen 2 are largely used where you need high throughput: it's no surprise that every USB 3.1 Gen 2 device I linked you to is storage-related, 'cos there's where 10Gb/s can make a difference. There are also high-end industrial cameras with Type C, again 'cos they need the throughput. A keyboard? A keyboard doesn't need 10Gb/s of throughput. It doesn't need 10Kb/s of throughput.

    Here's what will happen, as has happened with every other connectivity standard since the dawn of time: it will be adopted where it makes sense, which in this case is high-speed storage; as users increasingly buy said high-speed storage devices, they'll want more Type C ports and the manufacturers will gladly oblige; as the number of Type C ports increase, the number of Type A ports will decrease accordingly 'cos there's finite room for this stuff; as the number of Type A ports decreases, manufacturers of devices which don't necessarily benefit from Type C connectivity (beyond the universal "I can shove it in the hole with my eyes closed and not worry about which way up it is" benefit) will move to USB Type C so as not to tie up the decreasing number of USB Type A ports.

    Replace "USB Type C" with "USB" and "USB Type A" with "RS232" in the above, and you'll have a description of why you're not using an RS232 serial port mouse right now.
     
    Gareth Halfacree, 10 Jan 2017
    #20
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