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Americans - Read This

Discussion in 'Serious' started by VipersGratitude, 13 Nov 2008.

  1. Nexxo

    Nexxo * Prefab Sprout – The King of Rock 'n' Roll

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    It is the price for how white people got to be rich and alive (as opposed to poor and/or dead like, say, the Native Americans, Black slaves, or various people in the Middle East or Third World). As you said: don't forget what it means to be where you are.

    What you are arguing for is the basis of any healthy, functioning free market: give and take. Fair exchange of value. It's OK to pursue personal wealth or acknowledgement as long as you contribute something useful in return. A good deal is one where both sides walk away relatively happy.

    The reason why people in the Third World or the former colonies hate the (relatively) rich, live, white guy is because they feel screwed on the deal (so to speak). When people feel screwed on a deal, they may decide to take what they feel owed by force. The reason why we have a credit crunch is because people got screwed on the deal. When people feel screwed on a deal they lose their trust in the market. They stop doing business, and the market collapses.

    The reason why we have MSF and many other charities besides is because some people do remember what it means to be where they are, and are trying to keep the balance between give and take. The reason why Asian car manufacturers are doing so well compared to their American counterparts is because they deliver reliable cars at a good value price. The US delivered the Ford Pinto; Japan delivered the Honda Accord. Gm may have cleaned up its act but people, as you know, have long memories. Nothing carries like a grudge...

    Free markets are great, but the governments and companies that tend to cause the trouble violate free market rules: a fair exchange of give and take where each side benefits. Basically, they lie, cheat and steal. And when people get pissed off and stop dealing with such unreliable dealers they get accused of being anti-capitalist and anti-Western. Well, let the free market decide. If Western capitalism is such a good deal, we shouldn't have any problem finding buyers. We should, moreover, be eager for their business. But union protectionism, trade restrictions, conflict investment in and hostile take-overs of other countries are not part of a healthy free market.
     
    Last edited: 28 Nov 2008
  2. exavier412

    exavier412 New Member

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    What you're saying is that in the next 2-3 years GM will be a more successful company. That is god news, and I hope this is true. But the fact is is that for the past few years they have NOT been making good cars at good profits. I am excited to see what Chevy's $40,000 WonderCar (Volt) will do for their company. I'm hoping it is not too late, and I'm hoping people will have the money to spend on this car, and that it is worth every penny. I've watched the Congressional hearings with the big 3, and as much as I'd like them to succeed, I did not hear a clear plan on what they are going to do. Yeah, they flew over there in there $35 million+ private jets, but they couldn't give a clear plan as to what they would do.

    I just visited the LA Auto Show. The hot new cars are the Dodge Challenger, and Chevy Comaro, and although I'd love to own either one of these, they are hardly the efficient cars we need. Dodge and Chrysler were showing off cool EVs and touting them as "the cars of the future" but where are these cars now? Yeah, oil is half of what it was in all the craziness of the summer (i have a Wall Street Journal Europe on my wall and the front page says "Oil's fast jump stirs talks of $200 barrel this year. I laugh at the $~50 prices now), but we still need these vehicles. Civics, Yaris and Prius' are getting 40-50 mpg, but we're just barely starting to get 30+ mpg cars. No one can deny we were trying to build 15mpg gas guzzlers that would turn a huge profit, while the asian car makers were working to improve reliability and efficiency.
     
  3. ZERO <ibis>

    ZERO <ibis> Member

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    Was it not the us gov that told private sector, hey you need to lower your standards and give loans to people who can not pay them back (what could go wrong) ...


    How about we start a new age of corporatism (fascism) where the risk can be socialized and the profits privatized. We have done it before (Wilson and TR and FDR) and we all know how well it worked out for Italy (and somewhat for Hitler) but we should not be looking at the past but instead take steps forward down a path that has brought us in a circle every time....
     
    Last edited: 29 Nov 2008
  4. steveo_mcg

    steveo_mcg New Member

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    Don't laugh, learn. Once we clear the recession oil demand will jump straight back up and the odds are the speculators will get on the same game and the price will be back on that continual drive north. This drop in price is a reprieve for the consumer to give them the chance to sort out their personal demand. But don't doubt $200 oil is coming probably in the next 5 years.

    The sensible man in the street will take what happened over the summer as a hint to get a smaller car, insulate their house or in the hot climates find a way of living with out air con and prepare because energy is never going to be cheap again, well will fusion gets good....
     
  5. exavier412

    exavier412 New Member

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    I don't doubt that the drop in price was by the huge oil companies pushing the limits as to what they could charge for gas. They reached the $4.50 area and people started to get really upset and panic. Now they're dropping it down low enough to where customers almost enjoy buying gas-- It's an amazing thing being able to fill up my car for under $35 again. I just hope that this decrease in price doesn't cause people to go out and buy SUVs they don't need. We Americans though, I wouldn't put it past us.
     

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