Rant Another Bullying Suicide

I'm a teacher and I just sigh inwardly when I read comments like some of the ones posted here.

99% of bullying, physical intimidation, name calling happens out of sight and ear shot of teachers. Teachers don't turn a blind eye to it because most of the time you are completely unaware of it happening. Kids very rarely confide in you if they are the victim as generally they are too ashamed or scared to do so. When you do find out, it is almost always at the last minute, after something serious has happened or when the child decides to take the matters into their own hands in whatever way.

It's very easy for former victims to blame everybody and anybody for not helping or caring, but at the end of the day the person to blame is the bully and not the school (usually). Regardless of what some people think, schools take this extremely seriously as child welfare is something that no school can afford to neglect as the consequences are just too high. I have dealt with countless instances where I have suspected bullying or intimidation, but when you try and investigate you come up against silence from the suspected victim and anyone else able to provide information.

You can have as many task forces, special schemes, and government initiatives as you like. It won't stop behaviour that comes very naturally to all of us, and for the most part goes on away from prying eyes.

 

Lol, you sound like a teacher I was involved with, and she talked a lot of BS.

Of course the actual bullying isn't the schools problem, but when a school will not put out any decent rules to help victims, then they are the problem, laws need to be changed. When a school says it's No1 thing to crack down on is bullying, but then when someone get's bullied, all they can say is "We will give them a warning and talk to them", and if it happens again "They will get a 3 day exclusion", and that happened many many times. I got excluded for 2 weeks for my own safety, but the ****ing ***** who was doing it was still at the school.

Yeah sometimes you will get nothing Mookboy, but school rules/laws suck, and in actual fact nothing is done in some circumstances because the school wants to help it's reputation.

Schools can make excuses as making themself sound innocent, but try to make an excuse after someone has kiled themself.

 

the reason that you come up to a wall of silence is that the victim knows that if he tells a teacher that it will get worse as all a teacher can do is talk to the bully at which point it gets ten times worse for the victim.

 

Problem identified, right there. Nobody wants to or dares to take responsibility. The parents don't care and toss responsibility to the school --as long as it doesn't actually try to discipline their precious little angel, that is. You can expell a bully, but they will only see it as a reward: behave like a **** and you don't have to go to school anymore!

Bullies exploit weakness; they think in terms of power and dominance. That's what they were taught at home. When they work out that their parents will protect them from the consequences of their behaviour no matter what, and that schools and agencies are powerless to really intervene, they experience no boundaries and basically feel all-powerful.

Suddenly, residential military school (not the ineffectual, neglectful social services solution of underfunded, chaotic "care homes") for wayward kids seems like a decent idea. They get imposed structure and discipline, teamwork, self-respect and respect for others, and might actually learn a few useful skills and values.

 

she went to my old school she is teh second kid from there in 2 years since i left to commit suicide!!! and i knew both of them

oh ad they both live in the same village as me

 

Lol yup, joke isnt it? The level up from that is I received a "Hand Written Letter" from the person saying how sorry they were, I didn't even read past the 3rd line, I mean, they don't mean a damn ****ing word in the letter, otherwise they wouldn't of done it in the first place.

This is where I am trying to get at, even IF the bullied reports the bullying, **** all happens about it.

Nexxo - If someone gets expelled, the victim is going to be 100% happier going to school than he was when the person was there, it will also show his mates that if you do mess about, you'll get kicked out.

I know there is schools for in every city for people who commit an offence outside of school, I mean, why can't they send them there? Heh.

 

CCTV Cheesecake? If you can't sneak into the Congestion zone without paying the charge, why should you be able to bully a kid in school?

 

Yep! It's such a good idea. You take someone that's a bully and teach them how to kill and how to use automatic weapons, and before anyone starts accusing me of being soft on bullies or going over the top. I was bullied at school, and I have served in the army, and the thought of the bullies being taught what I was taught by the army as a way of stopping them from bullying people horrifies me.

Seriously.

You're turning kids who like to hurt people, into adults who can kill them.

I know there's a few ex-squaddies who use this site, and I'm not saying that all ex-squaddies are homicidal maniacs, or bullies. I'm just saying - and I include myself in this - that with the training we were given that we could quite easily be, if we had the appropriate (or rather, inappropriate) mindset. Luckily, because most of you choose to go in voluntarily as an adult, most bullies quickly get weeded out or driven out (I'm in the UK when I state this, I know it's different in the US and other countries, where the courts can order someone into the army - aka, a choice of a prison sentence or the army, from what I've been told).

Don't get me wrong - something does need to be done about it, but nothing effective ever will, because, unfortunately, be it nice or not, it's human nature for there to be scumbags that like to pick on people. Whether you say it's genetic or their up-bringing (nature or nurture) it doesn't change the fact that they're scumbags who enjoy bullying people.

 

i used to get bullied quite a bit at that school aswell. the way to stop it is to fight back the bullies back offf if you stand up to them cus they respect that you can stand up for yourself bullies tend to go for people that are easy victims that will not stand up for themselves. the way i did was one lunch they really really p***ed me off in the middle of the canteen and so infront of about 2-3 head of years and the deputy head master i just grabbed a steel chair and threw it at them and swung for them a few times sure it got me in isolation for a day (must say isolation was awesome no work and the first choice of food at lunch) but i never got bullied again and they respected me. now im not saying people should get into fights with the bullies just stand up for yourself and it will work

 

I sympathise with you about your own experience, and I can tell you do speak from experience with being bullied yourself. But that doesn't mean you are always right either. I would guard against making sweeping comments like those above, as you will find that in most cases you mistaken in your views about teachers and schools. I'll put down your initial comment to misdirected anger too.

You seem pretty hung up on the notion that the schools are somehow conspiring to brush bullying under the carpet, and that they are ineffective because of their own policies. The reality is that all child welfare policies are drawn up in conjunction with government and local education authority guidelines and rules, and not at the whim of a teacher or headteacher. As with many other aspects of discipline and behaviour management, our hands our metaphorically tied and in many cases we are simply unable to do anything other than follow the rules given to us from higher authority.

Example: in my last school, a vulnerable pupil was using a facility we had to protect such children at lunch and break time from other, more predatory types in school. One lunch times, another girl of the same age walked into the facility and straight past the supervising staff. They realised this visitor was going to assault the vulnerable pupil but could do nothing but verbally ask for her to leave. She then proceeded to so violently attack the other girl that she was almost hospitalised. Now, the school did what you would expect and suspended the attacker with the intention of expelling her permanently. The school went through all the legal paperwork and procedures needed, of which they are an amazing amount, and at the end of the term did indeed expel the attacker. However, as is the case nowadays, the parents appealed and subsequently won their appeal infront of not the school or governors, but the local council appointed tribunal. The school then had no choice but to accept the pupil back into school, and could nothing to help the victim.

So many ills and problems are blamed on teachers and schools, but as said previously so few parents of pupils care to accept responsibility for their actions. Actually taking seriously hard action against a pupil is unbelieveably hard these days - and it's wholly down to legislation and a the increased power of human rights law used to protect those who choose to break it. Perversely the offender/bully often has the weight of law and human rights in their favour.

 

Speaking as someone who experienced years of heavy bullying, I can say that using violence against the bullies does not solve the problem. Nor do the bullies suddenly respect you. As Nexxo pointed out, bullies feed on weakness. Some of you reached a breaking point and fought back. You speak of your sudden revolution with pride. You threw chairs, you took the bully down, and you did it all in front of an approving crowd.

Did you seriously miss what happened there? You didn't defeat the bully. You didn't bring power to the geeks at your school. All you did was join him. Might makes right, and all that. Basically, you validated his world view; now he's is certain that it's much better to be on the giving end of a wallop. Remember, he's feeding on weakness. You showed him that you are just as violent as he, and that you're willing to make things difficult. So while you're free of his torment, he's moved on to another victim.

Teach the bully how to treat people with decency, and he'll leave everyone alone.

-monkey

 

I agree on that.

He didn't join him, he got revenge on the guy who had been making his life hell. If the guy moves to another victim, then so be it, but at least he got him off his back

 

I would like to agree with this, but I'm inclined to believe that we do in fact live in a world where might makes right. I was picked on in school, in retrospect not nearly as seriously as I could have been, but enough to make me hate school for almost all the years I went to it. If I could go back in time now and talk to a 7-16 year old me the one thing I'd tell me would be to fight back, hard. I'm not suggesting that I should have become a bully, picking on other kids. But I am suggesting that I should have returned any real aggression against me 5 fold. Looking back, I can see it would have worked - it would have made me realise that school bullies really aren't nearly as all-powerfull as they appear to peope they pick on, and it certainly would have stopped the problem. As people in my later years of highschool became more and more aware that I did martial arts, and that I had a hothead if anyone went after me - all my problems there totaly dissapeared.

As much as I'd like to see the system come through for kids, I don't see it as possible given the legal framework teachers are forced to work within the apathy and incompetance of so many parents out there.

 

Seriously, don't think you quite have the right impression. Military academies do not teach children how to kill and use automatic weapons. It is not like the adult army. They certainly don't want to foster out of control bullies. A good soldier is a disciplined, obedient soldier.

 

Not too sure about Military academies, as we don't tend to have them in the UK, other than Sandhurst for officer training and Wellbeck, which is a 6th Form defense college run by the armed services. As for a good soldier being a disciplined, obedient soldier - I'll agree on the disciplined part, however, we were always taught that yes, you obeyed the orders you were given - but you always questioned those orders. Maybe not there and then, but you questioned them so as to ensure that you and the guy next to you, and the guy next to him, performed whatever you were told to do in the most efficient logical and safe way possible.

To say a good soldier is a disciplined, obedient soldier is to imply that a good soldier is a mindless, order-following machine. A good soldier is just the opposite. He is a disciplined, questioning machine (although I hate that term), who knows when to question. And, when not to.

 

That's a pretty interesting statement coming from a guy who's first reaction to so many problems is:

I understand that you got bullied. From the tone of your posts it seems that you had some pretty rough experiences, but I wonder if those experiences have caused you to see physical retribution as an easy answer (even if it is partly in jest). Similarly, many bullies come from abusive households. In a way, yes, you've joined them. Violence begets violence. The geek that fights back doesn't have to worry about the bully, but someone else does! Civilized society demands that we look out for one another. Furthermore, if we just chuck the bully from school we end up with an uneducated bully living off the dole, contributing nothing to society, breeding future uneducated bullies.

Perhaps we do live in a world in which the notion of "might makes right" is perpetuated. I don't think that makes it, well, right. It's the same excuse that people use to justify everything from gun ownership to execution. In your case, the bully problem appears to have ended for you. My point is that the bullies simply move on to another target - one less inclined to fight back. Before long, they find the one that they torment to the point of suicide.

-monkey

 

Perhaps not. But I was raised an idealist. You let the right person know, the system takes care of you. In actuality, sometimes you simply have to take care of things yourself. Pragmatism may be less ethically sound in such a situation, but if it means coming home happy at the end of the day, that's the way to go.

 

i dont understad how schools cannot do anything about bullynig or whatever. its just crazy. to have people beaten up by a bully and not to expell them. it seems almost impossible to get kicked out of school. for bullying. yet for cheating or whatever they are so strict. and i think it is true that schools want to cover it up sometimes.

i think it was last school year in the high school i go to like 3 guys in probly grade 10 or 11 raped some guy in grade 9. they were supposedly high on extasy. expelled? im not 100% sure but i dont think so. the kid who got raped moved away i hear. and guess what? no police or anything letting the school know about it. i heard about it from friends and my parents even heard about it. how can they just cover it up like that? we shoud hear about it. even if they do take action the students should be told.

 

Bullying is an interesting concept, one that many schools certainly don't understand - or at the very least, choose not to actually think about. Lots of legislation etc. etc. just shows how academia is even more beaurocratic than business. Rather than tackle the issue, you have a load of people in the room whose sole purpose is to cover their own backs. I'm sure many teachers have the best intentions, while others just don't care. But at the higher levels is about covering your own back.

In primary school someone hit me, just walked up and hit me, so I smacked him round the face. I was always tought by my parents that I must never start a fight, but if I have to defend myself, I do it in one move. He goes off. Next thing I know at the end of break the teacher gets the entire school up and says hitting others isn't ok like HE DID, points to me, and has everyone look at me. Basically she had single-handedly destroyed my self-confidence in these matters. Obviously the kid who got off scott-free was a bully from another school, and proceeded to be a bully indefinitely. Fortunately I never got picked on in that school, although that same teacher victimised me more than once later on for doing absolutely nothing. This was a first offense too, and if I had even been asked for my side I could have provided witnesses as to who threw the first punch. Either way if I knew what I know now, I would have got many people involved. In this country you're innocent until proven guilty, but in schools it would seem if you're a victim you're automatically guilty.

In secondary school it took TWO YEARS of mild bullying before I defended myself again, all because that teacher decided to destroy my self-confidence in primary school.

Its animal nature to prey on the weak, you have to make sure you're not the weak. If you demonstrate that you're not weak, a bully won't harm you. You can't reason with a bully 'what you're doing is wrong', they only understand one thing: If they harm you, they'll be harmed themselves. However, teachers (either through legislation, or wanting a peaceful life) PUNISH the victims 9 times out of 10. This destroys what little self-confidence they had left, guranteeing they'll never stick up for themselves.

I'm with what many people have said - if you get bullied, you do some serious damage to that bully. Word gets around, and you'll never be touched again. This doesn't mean fighting or any rubbish like that, it's purely self-defence.

If you don't want to hit someone, then there's only one option left. You have to join a herd, a group of close friends who will always stick by you. A bully will only ever go for single-people since they have control then, someone to victimise who won't do any damage themselves.

I would like to finish with one thing though: If hitting someone isn't OK in the adult world, it mustn't be OK in the child world either. Otherwise they'll just grow up thinking GBH is no big deal, and gets you what you want. If someone is going round hitting people, they need to be punished in the first instance, not after a long string of offences. Expelling or Suspending isn't that answer - do you really think these kinds of kids really want to be in school in the first place? Extra work, supervised lunches, are the kinds of things that spring to mind. They hate work, love home time. Make the bully hate school, not the victim whose likely to get good grades if not being constantly harassed.

 

OK, and you think that I'm talking rubbish?

I guess supermonkey suggests that we all should look after each other --not put the responsibility on some external paternalistic system or look out just for ourselves.