Hey all, I'm looking for a good non-TN 24" with good color accuracy and a minimal lag - I do photoshop work as well as fps gaming and movie watching. I'm aware that those are often incompatible goals, especially in something I can afford (under $550-600), so I'm looking for a good all-around compromise. I've read about monitors till my eyes bleed. Seems like every one has it's respective issues, and for each make and model, some say they love it, while the next guy had a terrible experience. Add to that the quality-control crapshoot, and it's enough to make one weep. That said, I think I've finally settled on a Dell U2410 as the holiday purchase of choice. Before I do, I thought I'd open up the floor to last minute cautions or alternate suggestions from more knowledgeable folks here. Which, as far as LCD monitors is concerned, is everybody - I'm still using a NEC FE211SB CRT! So, Dell U2410 a good idea for what I need, or am I dead wrong in my choice and should consider something else? Thanks in advance for any advice - fire away! -Tuthmose
No freaking way! that is my CRT monitor.. but in 17inch And I HAVE the Dell U2410! This is my first LCD, as I was looking for a LCD providing very close CRT feel to it. The U2410 delivers just that. - No backlit bleeding (unless you are seeking for ultra perfection.. than you must cash double to triple amount of the money) - Pre-calibrated display (Adobe RGB and RGB color profile built-in in the monitor only.. the other color modes are the standard stuff - by eye calibration). The monitor is well calibrated. - Picture-in-Picture works great, however if your second source gets disconnected it loses the last settings (minor bug?). However, the second display in picture-in picture has a colors tin applied to it.. presuming to highlight that they are different computers... but either way you can't really work with Picture-in-Picture so no mater... I use Synergy software (free), to control both my computer with the same keyboard and mouse (it's a Keyboard/Mouse Switch software) - I attached my Wii with the composite and component cables at 480p/480i, and it works great. Does a good job at scaling. - Stand is in real metal (black parts are plastic, put on top of metal for design. It doesn't feel cheap - Touch sensitive control and OSD menu is extremely easy. I tried other LCD OSB's before (in stores and friends), and this one is SUPER easy to navigate, and looks really nice. Bravo Dell! - Driver Disk already include Win7 color profile drivers. - 1x DVI, 1x Display Port, 1x VGA, 1xUSB (for the USB hub) cable is provided. For the second DVI or for the HDMI or the component and composite you need these cables. But, you can see with Dell over the phone to get your needed cable for free or discount... I mean they cost pennies to make, and if it makes a sell, why not (if the sales person doesn't want to, than hang up, and try someone else.. one that cares) - Memory card doesn't read compact Flash.. but then who still has this memory card. USB hub turns of when you turn off the monitor, but not when it's on stand by. - Brightness level actually changes the lamp luminosity, and not the colors. I think for the price that you pay this monitor will surpass your CRT monitor in color reproduction (it may feel strange at first, but after a week of using it normally, than the CRT will look strange, and so all those crappy LCD's, and the vomit called TN panel). This monitor is of high quality build, and the stand mechanism works very well. I ordered mine form Dell Small Business (I said family business), to get their premium service for the same price. In games, this monitor is fantastic.. even if you leave the Adobe RGB mode on, I see no input lag in FPS games, nor ghosting or anything bizarre. I think Dell created the perfect balance in game/multimedia/graphic monitor. Everyone told me "You got rip-off over a TN panel... you won't notice a difference." And when they see what a good IPS can do they are all "HOLY ****! NO F*** WAY!!! I AM BUYING ONE NOW!!!!!!" BTW, until November 12, the U2410 has a 70$ discount at Dell US website. Now, just a note. I am not graphic designer.. but I do make my own UI layout in my software (so I know how to use Photoshop.. but color accuracy is not THAT critical for me), I have no LCD calibration tool, but I trust Dell Minolta calibrators (a report is provided to you) See here: http://forums.bit-tech.net/showpost.php?p=2132376&postcount=35 Addition note on the post above:" the difference I talk about is actually the lamp of the LCD.. the replacement had a slight warmer tone. I decided to keep my current on, and just switch the stand. Comparison: http://forums.bit-tech.net/showpost.php?p=2132481&postcount=37 (it's so light that the camera did not pick it up). Anyway, back to what I wanted to say: Color accuracy is not critical for me, but unlike many, I DO ENJOY my colors, and I think this monitor delivers for the money. Upside: + Clean nice, professional looking monitor.. the monitor system information and serial number is hidden in a slide out panel to not touch the design. + Pre-Calibrated Adobe RGB and RGB color mode - and looks like it's well done. + Ability to create a custom colro profile f + Fantastic colors. + Amazing view angles (thanks to it's IPS panel) + Touch sensitive controls are perfect. + Easy OSD navigation with great looks + Beeps when turning on/off the monitor and navigating in menus... it can be deactivated via the menu + Metal stand provide no wobbling for the LCD + Ability to be very bright, great for next to Window position + Anti-reflective film seams to be top quality and doesn;t seams to interfere with color vividness + 2 side USB port and 2 back USB ports great for easy access or hiding some USB cable or receiver. In my case I use the back USB for my webcam, and wireless mouse. + Goes great with Logitech products (illuminated keyboard, MX revolution, Z-4 Speakers, WebCam Pro 9000, and Dell Latitide E6400 laptop) + Every connection on the back works great + Great for gaming and watching movies as well as professional work + Windows 7 ready. + Picture in Picture and Side By Side picture-in-Picture + Brightness control lamp luminosity and not colors. Downside: - PiP source is forgotten when second source is disconnected (a little annoying for when you attach a laptop) - PiP second source has a color tin to it to make the other source, and hs no option to disable it. However, you can't really do much work in PiP eitherway.. so not really a downside - HDMI and second DVI cable not provided. Improvements: - Add an ambient light sensor. - Auto-rotate computer display when screen is being rotated. Tablet PC's have that.. why not monitors. Luckily you can use iRotate (free software for Winodws) which provide keyboard shortcuts to rotate screen. Maybe an issue I don't know: - Using Adobe RGB or RGB color profile, in some dark gray tones, it appears as pix-elated /compressed JPEG... I think the monitor can't produce these type of dark gray's, and because it's set to Adobe RGB or RGB, it doesn't attempt to produce or provide a wrong color. This me be good or not. Using different color mode, including custom, doesn't have this issue.. probably using the trick where it takes 2 close colors it can produce and switch to them really really fast to trick your eyes in showing the correct color.. like what TN panel does as they are only 6-bit colors in reality. - USB hub turns off when the monitor is turned off (however not when it's on standby, so it's all good). Maybe this was done to save power... I don't know. To Note: - This panel is not a true 12-bit panel, but rather a 8-bit panel with a 12-bit LUT (Look-up Table). In conclusion, I love this monitor, and I think it's worth every penny. It must be noted that this is not a 1500$+ monitor, but rather a 500-750$ (depending where you live) one, and does deliver. It was above my expectations, and I find it a great CRT replacement. I initially thought of having this LCD with my CRT next to it... but this LCD is soo good, in my opinion, that I completely removed it form my desk.
Actually... out of the box.. it's rubbish. In keeping with most wide gamut monitors, the pre-calibrated settings are poor. Whether you notice this or not depends on your experience. If you're current monitor is correctly calibrated, you'll instantly hate the colours. I was playing with a 2410 the other day, and when set to factory defaults it's very saturated. The only colour preset which looks OK if the sRGB setting... which kind of defeats the object of a wide gamut monitor. If you're use to a monitor that's never been properly calibrated you'll probably not notice. Once calibrated, I was very impressed with this monitor. Anyone with a professional, or even semi-professional camera! CF is still the mainstay for high end camera gear. They all do. Huh? It has a special gaming mode that HALVES input lag compared to Adobe98 mode. For twitchy FPS games, it's well worth switching modes for. Which kind of makes my point... that the pre-calibration is a joke. and as the delta-e report above shows, MASSIVELY out. In fairness.... for everyday use, it's perfectly fine. ... a pain in the ass if you DO calibrate it Correct... once calibrated, this problem disappears. I agree. I have a completely different set of requirements to Goodbytes, so I'm a little more critical. In balance, for the money, this is an astoundingly good panel, and I'd recommend it without any hesitation. Just as a side note, I think people need to be aware of the problems of using UNCALIBRATED wide gamut screens. from TF TCentral: Extended Gamut One problem the enhanced-gamut monitors are bringing about is how to make them correctly reproduce images prepared for older, sRGB, monitors. Widespread graphics file formats encode colour not with some absolute values (e.g. with CIE diagram coordinates), but with some relative units. It means such files are going to be displayed differently on monitors with different colour gamuts. So, a picture prepared for an ordinary sRGB monitor is going to have extremely saturated colors on the screen of monitors such as the XL20. It can be said that its colour gamut is forcibly stretched out from its native sRGB (72% NTSC) to the XL20’s colour gamut (114% NTSC). There are two ways to solve this problem. First, an ICC profile is created after calibration and each program that has colour management options can learn the monitor’s colour gamut from it and correct images appropriately. Second, the XL20 monitor can emulate any colour gamut smaller than the monitor’s own gamut. This is offered by the 'Color Mode' option, accessible through the 'mode' OSD selection button. When you press that button, a menu with five modes opens up: Uncalibrated, as goodbytes says... you need to be in a AdobeRGB or sRGB preset, or your colours will be wild.
Goodbytes and Pookeyhead, Thank you both very much for taking the time to write such comprehensive replies - I appreciate it! No worries on the color - I fully intend to calibrate the colors. I've got an external calibration tool (or rather, the wife does, as she's the director of an art gallery, and thus pickier than me about colors). It's good to see confirmation that it can be calibrated well, Pookeyhead - I've heard with some monitors that attempts at calibration yield so-so results. Your information about the game mode effectively cutting lag is nice to hear too. Thanks again - guess its the U2410 for me . . . -Tuthmose
Also a proud owner - it's an epic piece of kit. Calibration is a must though, mine was infinetly better afterwards; it was truly awful out of the box.
Adobe RGB and RGB color profile are NOT SET by default. You have to go to that color profile. The default settings called "Standard" in this monitor is store shelf settings. Where they are very little color accuracy and saturation is super high. Look at the calibration report, it ONLY talks about AdobeRGB and RGB mode So then you already have a reader.. what the problem?! You need to look at more crappy monitors. No they don't. I have 3 LCD monitors used by family in the household, all with different price range and company, and the brightness control plays with the color, or both the lamp and colors. Game Mode exist, where it the visual circuit system drop color accuracy significantly to reduce input lag, yes. My point is that you can game fine by leavuing "RGB" or "AdobeRGB" color profile mode. Again, I would like to note that is this a NOT a 1500+ (smaller screen) Monitor, with uniform backlight, using RGB backlik light and what not using a PVA panel, providing you true 12-bit or more colors. But, assuming you know that. FOR THE MONEY, this is great monitor and does deliver the best experience, of what you paid, and it should surpass or be the same of your old CRT monitor, unless the 17inch model is not the just the size that is lower. If color accuracy is critical, you cal look at Sony professional line LCD... I think they had a 17inch model for a little over 17 000$ US, or EIZO screen in the starting price of 1500$ US.
No prob. As for calibration, apparently it is best to leave it in "standard" mode, and calibrate it in that by letting the software set white point with the GPU's LUT. For some reason this yeilds better results. I do yes... built into my Dell 2405FPW LOL.... I don't have a stand alone card reader, so I would miss the ability to read CF cards in the monitor.
Pookey, listen to the man, he's the king of monitors. At any rate I'd go with the U2410 in a heartbeat, but with that said, perhaps taking a look into the HPLP2475w would be warranted? Or perhaps even a used NEC2490UXi(not the UXi2), which I know should be about the same price.
