Education Any soldering gurus out there?

Discussion in 'General' started by profqwerty, 16 Jun 2011.

  1. profqwerty

    profqwerty What's a Dremel?

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    Hi guys, got an issue, I was borrowing the "perfect" iron but it's gone back home now, so I've got 2 more, each with an issue:

    #1) tip is good, but not hot enough to even melt solder on it's own
    #2) Nice and hot, but it's got a silver tip (stainless steel??) and it's conical, the solder won't stick to it so it's impossible to heat things up as it just balls and falls off.

    The "perfect" iron had a chisel tip and the solder stuck to it (the tip was a little bit black / dirty I think) so you could get a nice blob on and transfer heat well.


    What's the technical difference for these? As I want to order a new iron but don't really know what I should be looking for...

    Many thanks!
     
  2. mvagusta

    mvagusta Did a skid that went for two weeks.

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    Your tips are dirty and/or oxidized.

    Let the iron heat them up, then clean with steel wool, then tin the tip with solder and you'll be good to go.
     
  3. KayinBlack

    KayinBlack Unrepentant Savage

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    +1, also, the first iron sounds like it would work with a different formulation of solder.
     
  4. mvagusta

    mvagusta Did a skid that went for two weeks.

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    Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that iron 1 might also need the tip pulled out, and cleaned on the inner side aswell, using rough sandpaper if necessary, then whilst holding the tip with pliers, heat it on a stove, and tin that end as well.

    If it still doesn't heat up, assuming it's mounted firmly, then I guess you've got a dead iron.
     
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  5. KayinBlack

    KayinBlack Unrepentant Savage

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    You, sir, are getting rep.
     
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  6. thehippoz

    thehippoz What's a Dremel?

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    also make sure the wire/metal whatever your soldering to is heated up first with the iron..apply the other piece of metal afterward and let it flow over both (you don't want solder to create the bridge electrically, it's there to hold the pieces together)

    here's one I did recently (I make these- just don't ask why lol) I've soldered a lot.. no special training needed a monkey can do it.. but just remember the base needs to be heated up before.. people always make the mistake of putting it together and soldering- the job ends up really weak..

    [​IMG]
     
  7. mvagusta

    mvagusta Did a skid that went for two weeks.

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    You know wood is a little bit conductive right?
    Or have I assumed incorrectly, and those elements are in fact insulated from the wood?
     
  8. Elton

    Elton Officially a Whisky Nerd

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    If you want to make a stronger bond, try this:

    Put soldering lead onto both end first. Then heat one of the ends up with the iron (thinner tips + clean tips work best) and solder them together. Works like a charm.

    Look for old HAKKO soldering irons and as for tips, almost any work but the nicer the finish the better. I <3 Hakko soldering irons, they're amazingly good.
     
  9. thehippoz

    thehippoz What's a Dremel?

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    well I've made quite a few already.. my buddy works at the airport and has access to a vswr meter.. not losing much in the 2.4-2.485 range to worry about any variation to the model

    they are all precise down to a thousands of an inch using a caliper I installed on my mill.. I used a caliper to size the copper too.. the only diameter that really matters on the dipole is the width.. this one does around 12dbm gains transmit, 22dbi receive (front to back ratio)

    the 20's I've made do 17 on the transmit and 24 receive.. but they are so long they need their own tripods.. the boom can be conductive on a yagi- but you need boom correction (it's a whole nother modeler to run the numbers).. from what I've seen on the vswr- it's good though.. same with pvc plastic.. made one but it's too flimsy when your on a tripod- bows

    wood or metal works well.. just wood is hell of cheap.. plastic is around 10 bucks for 8 foot slab

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
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  10. mvagusta

    mvagusta Did a skid that went for two weeks.

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    You've never tried insulating the elements from the wood, just to see if it makes a difference?
    I guess if the wood is always dry, then it probably won't make much difference.

    Have you tried adding another reflector?

    There's one thing the simulation software i've seen can't compensate for, and that's the environment, so a bit of trial and error can find some little improvements.
     
  11. profqwerty

    profqwerty What's a Dremel?

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    Thanks for the tips guys! Much appreciated.
     
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  12. ch424

    ch424 Design Warrior

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    Could be that #1 was for leaded solder and you've now got some lead-free stuff? Is #2 the one that I used to solder that stainless steel extender cable to that pump?
     
  13. Smilodon

    Smilodon The Antagonist

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    No, no, no!

    Never use steel wool on soldering iron tips. That's the method used by cavemen. (Cavemen may be good at beating mammoths to death, but they suck at soldering)


    Use a wet sponge and wipe down the tip, then add flux. Repeat until the solder sticks. If you haven't taken care of your tip getting the solder to stick initially is a bit difficult, but as soon as you get a small spot to work it's easy.

    Most proper soldering iron tips are coated with a copper core. The coating prevents the flux from eating the copper. Steel wool will scratch the coating. As soon as there is a hole in the coating the deterioration of the tip is unstoppable.

    Of course, even coated tips get worn out after a while. That's why the tips are replaceable. ;)
     
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  14. thehippoz

    thehippoz What's a Dremel?

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    yeah that's true.. they detune easily around metal- I've did a lot of testing though

    me and my buddy took one of the 20's out in the country and shot it a mile to a house using a 80mw router running ddwrt.. you could pick up the net at the house with a laptop fine.. pointing 2 yagi's at each other the link was 100%

    my friend was installing a biquad mounted on a dish between houses- that link is perfect.. full out transfers using stock power- the problem is the beam is so narrow you pretty much have to point them directly at each other

    the yagi's are good cause the tear is much wider.. kicks the crap out of omnidirectional at least.. I started building them after playing with some from china (all the ones they sell on ebay for like 20 bucks)

    I found they were horrible at transmitting.. a 9dbi omnidirectional was beating them.. the elements weren't spaced correctly.. it was just garbage- well they received ok but that was it.. the ones I build perform- really only found one other guy who sells them on ebay who looks like he might have the numbers down for wifi.. found the element size and spacing makes a big difference in performance- tried some stacking too but that didn't work out too well

    all those yagi's from china.. they look like this http://ameison.en.alibaba.com/produ...2_4GHZ_18dbi_Wifi_High_gain_Yagi_antenna.html

    don't buy.. they're total crap.. funny the reviews have praise- they have no clue how good they can be even through walls.. now pair it with an amp (not saying I do this.. but yeah :D)

    I'll stick a ohmmeter on it later and see if anything comes up.. related though, I did find you can adjust by placing metal in between the 3rd and 4th element and moving it back and forth- you can find a sweet spot that improves latency.. probably cause the boom isn't metal though- so there is a bit of lobe loss right at the dipole that may help correct.. I haven't figured out exactly why it works

    here's the pattern on the 20's

    [​IMG]
     
  15. Elton

    Elton Officially a Whisky Nerd

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    Good call, or just keep a wet sponge and if you get too much lead, just wipe it off. +rep
     
  16. Smilodon

    Smilodon The Antagonist

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    Yes, wiping off excess solder with the sponge works well. :)

    Actually, the tip should be wiped of when it starts to get a dull metal color. This often mean that you'll have to wipe it before every soldering join you do. After the tip is wiped of, apply a tiny amount of solder to the tip to ease the soldering process. oh, and the sponge isn't supposed to be dripping wet. Just wet it, and squeeze it with moderate pressure in your hand. And make sure to use a natural sponge or something made for soldering irons. Do NOT use a synthetic kitchen sponge. They just melt.

    The solder you apply to the tip is only to aid thermal conductivity. The solder that's going to fill the join have to be applied AFTER you have heated the thing you want to solder. Also, the solder should be applied to the object being soldered, and NOT to the tip of the soldering iron.


    so, The process should be like this:

    Wipe tip-> apply solder on tip->heat object with soldering iron->apply solder to object->release soldering iron.

    Rinse, repeat.
     
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  17. Elton

    Elton Officially a Whisky Nerd

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    Pretty much, after soldering thousands of objects onto PCBs I never really realized that the basics were so...basic.

    Smilodon pretty much got it all on lock as far as I can tell.
     
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  18. mvagusta

    mvagusta Did a skid that went for two weeks.

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    Yes... but yes can sometimes mean no :D

    If you don't feel like replacing your tips every year or two, then once the coating has worn off, some steel wool and little tinning will restore the tip to a very usable condition. Granted once a tip is this old, you will need to give the tip a wipe with steel wool and a tin at the beginning of most soldering sessions, but I'd much rather do this than buy new tips all the time!

    Us cavemen don't have money to splash around.

    Everything is easy with some experience, except for women, they can still prove to be completely unpredictable :confused:

    Yes, except for cleanliness. Solder won't stick to anything, tips, steel or copper, unless it's hot and clean.
     
  19. Elton

    Elton Officially a Whisky Nerd

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    True, lead won't stick if it's not hot, but that's the point of the iron, to melt the lead.

    So true, mva so true, women are as predictable as the weather.
     
  20. thehippoz

    thehippoz What's a Dremel?

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    nothing to soldering or braising pipe really.. my tips always get messed up too- I don't care though xD even with car stereos I'd always solder everything together instead of using twist locks

    I guess if you did delicate work.. but even then on breadboards, you can get away with any kind of tip.. it's not like welding- not much skill involved in soldering tbh =] helps if you aren't all thumbs but that's about it!

    try soldering in a tiny resistor like on a 8800gtx to unlock the voltage with a 60 watt iron (and f'd up tip XD)

    probably won't do that again btw but amazing it worked.. remember the old resistor popped out though- was looking through a damn magnifying glass.. you'd think electronics are fragile to the heat- but from what I've seen.. they usually survive
     
    Last edited: 18 Jun 2011

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