1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

News Apple intros the M1 Pro and M1 Max 5nm computer SoCs

Discussion in 'Article Discussion' started by bit-tech, 19 Oct 2021.

  1. bit-tech

    bit-tech Supreme Overlord Lover of bit-tech Administrator

    Joined:
    12 Mar 2001
    Posts:
    3,676
    Likes Received:
    136
    Read more
     
  2. andrew8200m

    andrew8200m Modder

    Joined:
    4 May 2009
    Posts:
    2,418
    Likes Received:
    214
    If things continue we best hope that macs can play all of the games we are accustomed to.. as with all apple releases we need to take numbers with a grain of salt and a bag of the stuff in the back pocket for good measure too..

    I can see why nvidia wanted ARM..
     
  3. sandys

    sandys Multimodder

    Joined:
    26 Mar 2006
    Posts:
    4,068
    Likes Received:
    351
    Looks like a good bit of kit, the screens seem really nice, that notch though.....I'm sure Apple with their design talent could have done better.

    Function Keys and a HDMI port make it much more PC like, good move.

    Now just need them to release a tent mode touch air laptop.
     
    Last edited: 19 Oct 2021
  4. Mister_Tad

    Mister_Tad Will work for nuts Super Moderator

    Joined:
    27 Dec 2002
    Posts:
    13,381
    Likes Received:
    1,638
    I have mixed feelings on the notch.
    Initial reaction was it's terrible and what were they thinking. But now looking at it, seems like the notch size is around the same as the entire upper bezel on a last-gen MBP16, so it's more screen, not less screen, as it's taller than even 16:10
    I don't have any problem with notches on phones, now having used one for a few years. Aside from video content in a pre-specified format, 16:9 video for instance, what's to say that a screen should be an unadulterated rectangle other than convention.

    Definitely easier to make work when you own the OS and much of what's in it though.
     
    Last edited: 19 Oct 2021
  5. sandys

    sandys Multimodder

    Joined:
    26 Mar 2006
    Posts:
    4,068
    Likes Received:
    351
    I can excuse it on an Iphone sort of, as you have those constant bars at the top but under display cameras can't come soon enough, it should not on a desktop/laptop, rubbish for media and general work, I am a fullscreen user with autohide taskbars as I want all the Pixels for my software, this notch would grate, the screen has a chin put the lidar stuff in there and a small camera at the top like teh LG gram.
     
  6. play_boy_2000

    play_boy_2000 It was funny when I was 12

    Joined:
    25 Mar 2004
    Posts:
    1,541
    Likes Received:
    87
    57 Billion transistors? Yes, that seems like exactly the sort of product we need in the middle of a chip shortage.
     
  7. sandys

    sandys Multimodder

    Joined:
    26 Mar 2006
    Posts:
    4,068
    Likes Received:
    351
    Hard to get away from more transistors on 5nm as they are of a couple of fixed sizes and you can only get so much power in and out of the devices so end up having to lay some things out with many more transistors than you would in an old tech design plus use a stack load of dummies between devices to maintain consistency and transitions to other voltage domains etc. never mind what the caches alone use whos bit cells will have a number of transistors, transistor count will just fly up.

    still comes out smaller than on another process node though, so long as they have good yields of course it is all good.
     
    Last edited: 19 Oct 2021
  8. wolfticket

    wolfticket Downwind from the bloodhounds

    Joined:
    19 Apr 2008
    Posts:
    3,344
    Likes Received:
    476
    Getting rid of the touch bar eh... Is this the first time history that Apple have removed a touch screen and replaced it with physical buttons in a like for like swap? :happy:

    It seems a bit cheap that they didn't replace it with stream deck style display keys, which would be the best of both worlds.
     
  9. Paradigm Shifter

    Paradigm Shifter de nihilo nihil fit

    Joined:
    10 May 2006
    Posts:
    2,306
    Likes Received:
    86
    I like the things I've seen about the M1 Max, but no way can I justify Apple prices when I can't do a lot of the things I need (when Linux works fully on the M1, that'll be a different matter - I can keep a desktop for games).

    But why do people want a camera under the screen? So you can't block it? When Mark Zuckerberg puts a sticker over the camera on his laptop, you can guarantee that the "oh the light is on when the camera is active" is bollocks. I'm not sold on the "notch" but that spot on the screen is usually functional dead space anyway, and all Apple have to do is mandate that programs not use that area for text/buttons/whatever and all the developers will jump.
     
  10. Gareth Halfacree

    Gareth Halfacree WIIGII! Lover of bit-tech Administrator Super Moderator Moderator

    Joined:
    4 Dec 2007
    Posts:
    14,948
    Likes Received:
    3,751
    Put a camera under the screen somewhere around two-thirds the way up, and it'll look like you're making eye contact with the person you're video chatting with - which does away with one of the reasons video calls are so exhausting at the moment, which is your hindbrain screaming at you that the person's avoiding your gaze and is therefore untrustworthy or hates you or something.

    'course, you could just fake it in software - I think it was Nvidia that did a thing where it just renders you new eyeballs on-the-fly so you're making eye contact regardless of where on the screen you're looking.

    Physical kill switches beat stickers every time. Shame so few companies offer 'em - there's the PinePhone and PinePhone Pro, which have DIP switches to disable everything from the camera to the radios(!), and... well, there's a "microphone off" button on my ThinkPad, but I'm pretty sure that's just done in software.
     
  11. sandys

    sandys Multimodder

    Joined:
    26 Mar 2006
    Posts:
    4,068
    Likes Received:
    351
    I wasn't suggesting putting the camera in the chin, just the faceid stuff which is the bit that makes the notch big, cameras are small enough they can still fit in the small bezel up top but Apple decided maximum profit, maximum cheapness on that side of things was the way forward, though under display cameras are a thing, as in under the panel active pixels, this could also be done less intrusive than a notch but that would cost loads more for a feature Apple clearly doesn't deem important.

    As for that functional dead space as you put it, it sits exactly where half of my main menus sit having a 40/60 split of schematics and design windows, so that alone for me would be a no no, whilst I am a bindkey master for the most part :D I still have to go hunting for stuff in the dreaded menus. So I'd probably have to custom res it or something and waste the top bits of the screen which would be a shame as the screen is one of the reasons I might consider a switch along with the build quality of apple devices generally.
     
    Last edited: 20 Oct 2021
  12. wyx087

    wyx087 Homeworld 3 is happening!!

    Joined:
    15 Aug 2007
    Posts:
    11,347
    Likes Received:
    446
    Just DIY this:


    This new M1 variants are definitely aimed at pros. Looks like the memory bandwidth is its ace up its sleeves. If traditional desktop x86 can get such bandwidth and be optimised for it, I feel it can be even faster.

    I just wish they'd offer similar amount of ports (especially SD card) on a 11 inch 16GB M1 Air model. My 2013 Air is due for an upgrade, it's feeling really slow, only use it to browse and quick Lightroom edits while on holiday (ha, remember those things?)
     
    Gareth Halfacree likes this.
  13. wolfticket

    wolfticket Downwind from the bloodhounds

    Joined:
    19 Apr 2008
    Posts:
    3,344
    Likes Received:
    476
    I always had this concept that you could fake it with two cameras, one either side of the screen. Then using geometry/software/AI/magic to take the stereoscopic images and generate a single centrally aimed image.
     
  14. ModSquid

    ModSquid Modder

    Joined:
    16 Apr 2011
    Posts:
    1,174
    Likes Received:
    154
    Dell intro'd a chin camera on its laptops a couple of years back and then binned it for the next release, as all it showed was whether you'd blown your nose before the call or not.

    I don't really see the issue with top/standalone cams. You just have to bear in mind that the other person also has an offset camera and both remember to look at it now and again. It might be unnatural, as per the video wyx linked (which was indeed a good solution if you were so inclined), but then so is working this way if it's not what you're used to. Luckily, our lot have been doing it for years to collaborate internationally and most of the time, everyone is looking at a shared desktop or presentation anyway and trying to read that. Adaptability is key, but it's hardly exhausting.

    This Apple pic suggests there's an option to blacken/disable the top few rows of the display like on some phones. Don't know how many pixels you'd lose as I couldn't find resolution details, but if the screen is larger/bezel smaller anyway per Mister_Tad's suggestion, then maybe you wouldn't be losing much whilst gaining the better quality screen:

    upload_2021-10-22_11-5-54.png

    Seems the future is a panel made of a superior quality two-way (one-way?) material with the camera behind, possibly even one that syncs its refresh rate with that of the camera so it didn't have to "see through" the desktop, as it would make itself transparent every time the camera shot a frame, although physically denying it access with a cover slide would obviously be a challenge.
     
  15. sandys

    sandys Multimodder

    Joined:
    26 Mar 2006
    Posts:
    4,068
    Likes Received:
    351
    My windows bar is 40 pixels even on a 4k display I don't want that thing using my real estate as it is dead space, this is mostly because I have other applications that also take their own space I can't control. That notch looks bigger than a windows bar.

    A 1080p cam could have fitted in the top without a notch, the notch is there for future stuff that I would imagine could have been below the screen.

    The price of the pro you'd think they could do under display, the tech is getting pretty good, Apples R&D budgets should nail this

     
  16. Mister_Tad

    Mister_Tad Will work for nuts Super Moderator

    Joined:
    27 Dec 2002
    Posts:
    13,381
    Likes Received:
    1,638
    Unless you're running something in full screen mode, you always have dead space in the middle anyway - menu on the left, tray on the right. It's a weird screen resolution that's a little bit taller than 16:10, and I'd bet my hat that the extra tallness exactly equates to the lost pixels from the notch.

    That said, I'd still rather go without. But I've also realised maybe I'm no longer a "power user", since my M1 mini does everything I want it to do, how I want it to do it, so if I were to replace my 16" MBP I'd likely do it with an Air.
     
  17. rollo

    rollo Modder

    Joined:
    16 May 2008
    Posts:
    7,887
    Likes Received:
    130
    At Apples current development pace, AMD and Intel must be worried

    I didn’t think they would scale so fast and hard

    Apple also has so much space power envelope to grow into.

    Intel and AMD have nothing that can be classed as mobile that can compete with this. Give Apple a year and they will have a mobile product that beats all desktop CPUs

    this is what I expected Intel to do all these years with the money they make

    make 5-10x performance jumps instead we got 5%

    I am probably not a buyer but if it forces Intel and AMD to do something we should all be grateful

    that GPU is also insane
     
    monty-pup likes this.
  18. monty-pup

    monty-pup Minimodder

    Joined:
    8 Apr 2018
    Posts:
    198
    Likes Received:
    36
    It would be a real killer if Apple one day said “check out our latest silicon running MacOS and emulating windows, faster than Intel/AMD can run it”
     
  19. Gareth Halfacree

    Gareth Halfacree WIIGII! Lover of bit-tech Administrator Super Moderator Moderator

    Joined:
    4 Dec 2007
    Posts:
    14,948
    Likes Received:
    3,751
    I'm old enough to remember when "like IBM, but both cheaper and faster" was Compaq's entire marketing push.
     
    monty-pup likes this.
Tags: Add Tags

Share This Page