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News Apple promises to fix location data logging

Discussion in 'Article Discussion' started by arcticstoat, 28 Apr 2011.

  1. arcticstoat

    arcticstoat New Member

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  2. coolius

    coolius New Member

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    At least with Android, Google have the sense not to store the data they collect unencrypted on the device!
     
  3. John_T

    John_T Member

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    Users are confused.

    They're confused as to why large companies like Apple, Google, Sony and all the others don't seem to give a damn about the privacy of their customers. They're also confused as to why, when said companies are found out doing something clearly wrong, they then choose to patronisingly talk down to their customers as if we're a bunch of naughty five year olds.

    Apple's explanation may describe (in their own best case scenario) why the information was sent, but is does not explain why it was kept for up to a year. Indignantly demanding that we just trust them is a bit rich, especially when this kind of information has to be forcibly dragged out of them kicking and screaming.

    We're long overdue appropriate statutory legal rights for technology consumers - governments are decades behind the curve and it's just not good enough.
     
  4. Xir

    Xir Well-Known Member

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    In other words:
    "Darn, you found out errr...we'll make sure you don't see the data we collect on you anymore."
    Hoorah!
     
  5. wuyanxu

    wuyanxu still wants Homeworld 3

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    it's already fixed by a small install on Cydia store, the day this thing is reported.

    Apple 0
    Jailbreak 1
     
  6. NiHiLiST

    NiHiLiST New-born car whore

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    So as an iPhone user, if someone steals my phone or my laptop it's backed up to, they can see the rough localities the phone's been in? I'm not sure why there's such a ruckus about this.
     
  7. steveo_mcg

    steveo_mcg New Member

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    I suppose if they also stole your keys it might help them break in but tbh its a bit of a thin argument. Personally can't say icare about this.
     
  8. BentAnat

    BentAnat Software Dev

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    Everyone's overreacting to this, IMHO.
    Apple says:
    So there's a bug, and they're fixing it.
    S*** happens.

    As for WHY they would do that in the first place? Technological common sense prevails, combined with market understanding and trying to present the user with the best usability...

    Not saying that Apple only had good intentions, but they're handling the situation in a way that takes the head out of the loop... and really - service providers track way more than that at any rate,
     
  9. warejon9

    warejon9 New Member

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    I think the argument of why the data is so important is, if this is being stored on the phone, someone could then take it and see where you worked etc etc. Or they could sell the information on the black market. I think the bigger future problem if it was not fixed would be that if you had the "near communication" stuff on your phone, they would know where you could have spent it. Or it could just be a bit of invasion of privacy, would you like someone to have tracked you for over a year?
     
  10. Woodspoon

    Woodspoon New Member

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    Give us all your data's
    Why not it worked for Sony
    Oh wait....
     
  11. John_T

    John_T Member

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    Here's an interesting read from one of bit-tech's sister publications:

    http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/security/367048/apple-snooping-plot-thickens-iphone-tracker-was-patented

    The idea behind this accidental 'bug' was patented by Apple in 2009.

    Of course, that still doesn't mean it wasn't a genuine accident now. For example, I'll be having lasagne for my dinner tonight - and the only reason I'm having that is because I don't really have a lot else at home. My having lasagne tonight is not, in anyway shape or form, connected to the fact that I went out yesterday and bought mince, tomatoes, herbs and sheets of pasta.

    Those two instances are entirely unconnected, and tonight I'm having lasagne because, purely by chance, those seem to be the only ingredients I have. Anyone who thinks I planned in advance to have my lasagne tonight is a tinfoil-hat wearing conspiracy theory freak who needs to stop seeing plots everywhere and get a life.

    Familiar argument anyone...?
     
    perplekks45 likes this.
  12. TWeaK

    TWeaK Member

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    The real problem with all of this is that all of this information is stored unencrypted on the phone itself. Further, if you back up your iPhone, it'll be stored unencrypted on the computer you back up to. So, regardless of whether or not it is sent anonymously or encrypted to Apple, it's a massive breach in privacy and security of the phones' users.
     
  13. eddtox

    eddtox Homo Interneticus

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    Why do we even care about this?
     
  14. Xir

    Xir Well-Known Member

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    As long as it's sent at all it's a security breach.
    I for one would be even more worried when my computer decides it needs to make encrypted calls "for the greater good" ;)
     
  15. azazel1024

    azazel1024 New Member

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    The reason to care to greater or lesser degrees is that it is that much more information about yourself that could possibly be revealed. Knowing it is there, the amount and length of data and that is unencryped...don't you think people are going to start demanding it in things like child custody hearings, divorce cases, criminal cases, etc? What about the wife checking the file on your computer and noticing that you aren't at work like you've been claiming when you work late?

    Way out on a limb here, but what about a crazy stalker hacking your computer and getting that location file, since it is backed up to any machines you connect your iPhone to. Just what you need, the crazy stalker to know you like to frequent starbucks around 1pm every friday.

    Sure some of the "problems" go pretty far out on a limb, but it is still a potential loss of privacy. I think Google, Apple and others collecting the data, annonymously, is not a bad thing in anyway. I see how it has user advantages. Why any of this data would need to be stored on your phone at all, or more than a short term cache before it is sent to Apple/Google/etc is beyond me and I think is what presents the real privacy issues.

    PS Telephone companies, at least in the US store where you are no matter the type of phone you have. They track the location of all active cellphones and the location that the last phone call was made to a fairly fine locus. They store that info for a very long time. This can help with 911 calls and search and rescues...but it is also a huge potential privacy issue. Though I think much less of one, and less objectionable then storing ALL you location information, ever just about, on your phone and on all machines that ever touch your phone.
     
  16. leveller

    leveller Yeti Sports 2 - 2011 Champion!

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    Hyperbole.
     
  17. jrs77

    jrs77 Well-Known Member

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    First of all, people shold get their facts staright.

    • Yes, iOS 4 collected the data and stored it on the phone.
    • No, iOS 4 it didn't sent any of that geodata to Apple.
    • Yes, Android-phones collect data aswell, but don't store it for you to read.
    • Yes, Android sends the geodata to google.
    • Yes, all mobile phones sent geodata to their respective carriers and this data get's stored for atleast 6 month and releases the information to the authorities if asked for.

    And now I do question all people who are using any kind of social networks ala facebook or myspace etc why they do suddenly request privacy.

    Fixing iOS, so that it doesn't store the geodata anymore does nothing to secure privacy at all, it only makes the data invisible to the customers allthough it's still being tracked by either the carriers or the companies.

    And yes, these geodata is cruicial for tons of services, so that they can tell you where to find the next restaurant, theater or gas-station etc.
    I allready hear the same people copmplaining currently scream, if those services suddenly are not available anymore when geodata isn't tracked anymore.
     
  18. digitaldave

    digitaldave New Member

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    mobile phone operators keep a log of all this data and more and are required by law to keep a record of it for 4 years.

    if you tick the encrypt back up tick box in itunes then you are fine.
     
  19. leveller

    leveller Yeti Sports 2 - 2011 Champion!

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    I love that checking-in 'app' on Facebook:

    Bob Jones checked-in at McDonalds Tamworth.

    Sweet, that means his house is empty ...

    disclaimer: in jest. I don't visit 'empty' houses!!
     
  20. Sloth

    Sloth #yolo #swag

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    Something I'm hoping for a little clarification on: is it storing actual GPS-esque data on your exact location, or just which cell towers and wi-fi hotspots you've used?

    My understanding is that it's the latter, in which case why is it such as massive fuss? The original purpose seems obvious: you go to an area you've been before and it loads up the data so that you can reconnect quickly and experience better service. The only location a person could get is an area where all of the towers and hotspots you were connected to overlapped which may be quite a large area, particularly times when you're just on cell towers. Now, times when you're connected to something like a Starbucks wi-fi hotspot are a little more pinpointed but it's still hard to get paniced over.

    Afterall, this is data a person would be getting after already having access to your phone, right? Your typical contacts list is far more damaging. At the very least you've just given away names and numbers to all of your friends, family and coworkers you keep in your phone. Matters just get worse if you use pictures for your contacts, or store addresses/birthdays/etc for them. Whoever stole your phone just has to look for the ones that all have the same last name or no last name entered and they've likely found any family members, finding co-workers is as simple as looking for ones with a number in the work number slot. Get even scarier and look up the names in a phone book and you've given away addresses to anyone who has themselves listed.

    Not saying there's a good reason to leave it all unencrypted for a year, just that it's not life or death.
     
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