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News Apple ranked highest for satisfaction

Discussion in 'Article Discussion' started by CardJoe, 20 Feb 2009.

  1. GoodBytes

    GoodBytes How many wifi's does it have?

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    WOW, you did not even read what I said. All your questions are answered on my post. You have no respect!

    Multitouch trackpad is useless for Windows environment, like the motion sensor. But if you must... ok fine, I forgot about it. Still doesn't catchup to make the feature item a winner.

    CPU were customized to be same, same for the RAM, GPU, and Harddrive. Do you want need an instructional video or you understand the word "same"?

    The only winning point that Mac Book Pro has, is that is can run it's propitiatory OS.
     
  2. perplekks45

    perplekks45 LIKE AN ANIMAL!

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    Which you can also get to run on any PC hardware if you really want to.

    But I still think your comparison isn't 100% correct. At least the screen size might not be a win for everyone. My girlfriend for example wouldn't accept a 14" because she had a 15" before and wanted one again. I couldn't get here to even look at smaller displays.

    But I do think you pay a premium for Apple's style, too. I just don't know why nobody managed to copy it properly... yet.
     
  3. GoodBytes

    GoodBytes How many wifi's does it have?

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    15inch version of the laptop is also available. The screen resolution of the Dell 14inch machine, and 15inch mac Book Pro are the same. If it is too small you can increase the font size, icon size, and/or DPI.

    I prefer my Dell machine design.... NO not because it's not a Mac!. What I mean is that the Apple design is like HP (no no not the looks! PLEASE LET ME EXPLAIN).
    HP had a nice design (I don't like it, but it was popular), for many years HP just tweaked the design and no change it. Now it's special design, turns out to be mundane, as ""everyone"" had it. Same for Apple, since the first aluminum machine they released (which was miles ahead from the FisherPrice toy they had). The design was cool, neat, modern, where even I loved it... but now it's been sooo many years, more than HP design, it's the same freaking deisgn. It's like if they hired a team of designed made a design and fired them immediately after, and perform the tweaks in design them self, where each tweak makes teh machine uglier.than what it was before (like HP... I mean now it's this plastic chrome like color that makes you blind). Al thought, Apple is from being in such situation, it doesn't guve the felling in saying "Oh that was a memorable model", and now the designed is starting to become mundane, especially that Sony uses silver now, and get to the point that ""Everyone" has it... or well "every" Apple user has it". Now Apple tried to mix things up with the black model on the previous generation, but that only delays the process. Same applies to IBM/Lenovo machine... just recently Lenovo designed to mix the design up with a touch of newness.

    NOTE: When I say "Everyone".. I don't mean literally, hens the quotes around.

    The Dell Latitude (I use that as example as I have in front of me, but I do NOT rule out the other such as Sony just to mention 1 example), looks like a Lenovo machine.. but is it? of course not. The Dell has a nice paint job design on the cover, has a sleek, simple, industrial design (which is way more developed on the coming up Del Adamo), a design where you don't even see the screen hinge for the user. And has this business black partly-reflective color (not glossy nor semi-glossy). It's original. When I use it at university, no one has one like mine.

    Like the Mac Book Pro (previous generation.. I did not see the new one to say anything about it) the machine is in metal, and plastic is used at the same area.
     
  4. The_Beast

    The_Beast I like wood ಠ_ಠ

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    I'm kinda mixed on the subject, I love my PC, I built it, I know how it works, I can fix it myself (if it every breaks down)


    But I also love my iPod, I know I could have found something cheaper that does the same thing but I just love it
     
  5. GoodBytes

    GoodBytes How many wifi's does it have?

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    I too like iPods... They really made players stop beeing assy and make competetion. I recall an MP3 player, many many many years ago. One of the early flash based ones. I loved it's menu:
    - Song
    - Playlist
    - Options
    - Settings
    - Preferences
    Heuuu.... right... And to top it all off, had a micro ultra low screen resolution, where each menu item had to scroll left to right for you to be able to read them.

    Apple, really did something here, and made MP3 player a success.
    But frankly, after my last iPod (as the newer ones tend to break every year or less, on a daily usage basis, and the several -40 to room temperature environment of Canadian Winter, brake the device. I decided to open it and see what is inside (it was the iPod nano 2nd gen). Poor circuitry! Which explains also why the device is the most unresponsive device when large temperature change occurs. I mean the circuit board is ultra thin, cracked (like micro cracks.. appears whitish, but no split) (it was never dropped or switched) and the screen circuit and scrollwheel is made on a peace of plastic sheet, where room for a real circuit board was clearly there. So, i decided to try something new.. just to try.. I mean, worst come to worst it will brake in a year.

    So, I got a different MP3 player, you know... those where stores keeps it turned off, in a corner with no light, full of dust... yea tHOSe players! I got the Zune 120 black (the latest one, with the new Zune software which is apparently awesome and firmware 3.0). And WOW, I am amazed.

    Despite being an HDD, I already drop it (it had the Zune official protective case (it was a special at the store, buy a Zune and get that thing for free)). And nothing! the Zune has no scratch nor dent (well it was protected) , but more importantly the HDD is fine. In fact I read it has a free fall sensor (not sure if that was true). The sound card and headphones are better than the iPod, it's cheaper in price, ultra easy navigation with one hand, and eailly allow you to scroll item by item or fast scroll on ultra long lists. Video's and podcast on it is impressive, great view angle. TV output is in 480i, and not the small video like the iPod. Software is really cool, it has this Media center feel to it. And you can make your own Zune games! Oh, and the screen and plastic is apparently scratch resistance. The wireless sync is pretty cool too.

    Now it has it's faults for sure. Such as no Game store, no web browser (I mean it has a wireless card, it could be done. I found a game on the Zune with a mouse where you use the navigation scroll thingy like a laptop touch pad), it's fat, and you can't use it as an external HDD. But other than that... if someone wants JUST an MP3 player, this is pretty amazing. Oh and it doesn't have any issues upon temperature changing. Knowing that still old 1st gen Zune which can be updated to the latest for free, and still works. I think I have a good device in hand. But we will see! So far:
    iPods are great... but not for Canada climate.
     
    Last edited: 21 Feb 2009
  6. Sark.inc

    Sark.inc New Member

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    fixed.


    the reason PCs get improved all the time is because someone just keeps wanting more and more power, it's simply like when someone gets a fast car, they want it to go faster.

    if you want to prove me wrong, show me somewhere where they actually modify the hardware and cases etc.
     
  7. harveypooka

    harveypooka Fond of rumpots and crackpots

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    Once again, you highlight selecting features and forgetting others.

    I've never seen a single broken Mac laptop screen and I've been in universities for the past seven years.

    VGA? Old. MiniDisplay Port - yes annoying, but you can use an adaptor. Also, Mac screen is bigger. I love you call the non-glossy a feature! Some people would prefer the glossy.

    Granted, Dell seems to win on battery life and two batteries. However you miss that the Mac can also change it's battery.

    As for software, that's the biggest mistake - Mac is not the same as Windows. The software you get on a Mac - iPhoto, iDVD, GarageBand - is pretty unique. I'm sure you can get Windows alternatives, but they are different apps, suited for different people and different uses. You can also get freeware/open source stuff for a Mac. Most of the OS is built on it, with a few annoying exceptions.

    Have you bothered looking at the GPUs in these machines? The MacBook Pro features hybrid SLI and is pretty damned decent. I saw the 9600M run CoD4 at decent framerates at a decent res. Looks like the Dell has Integrated graphics or the NVIDIA 160M.

    One mouse yes, but it's multitouch and very handy for scrolling documents, etc.

    This thread has already turned into a flamewar. Sadly GoodBytes I don't think you can say so very simply "The Dell is better". I'm not saying the MacBook Pro is better. But you have to weigh up the machines truly and honestly, taking into account user experience, build quality and satisfaction over time. These are things you can't read on paper or over the web, they come from use.

    If the Dell suits you, great! I hope you have a happy life together. But you can't simply say it's good for everyone and the Dell wins. Too simplistic.

    Right, now to get my breakfast...
     
  8. wyx087

    wyx087 Homeworld 3 is happening!!

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    have Apple fixed the hybrid-SLI issue?? upon its release, reports are that one has to log-off, and log back on to change the graphics card.

    is it now like: run in 9400M when not needed, then kick start 9600M when 3D stuff are detected?? i know Windows desktop based Hybrid-SLi can do that.
     
  9. harveypooka

    harveypooka Fond of rumpots and crackpots

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    Bizarrely, this isn't an issue but a decision by Apple.

    I was at the press event for the 94/9600M and asked Rene Haas why this was the case...he couldn't say, other than it was a choice by Apple!
     
  10. GoodBytes

    GoodBytes How many wifi's does it have?

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    Well you are blind, what can I say.

    VGA is still very useful, I still use high-end CRT's that massacre any LCD you throw at me, with it's view angle, refresh rate, color accuracy, and precision.
    Glossy screen is not a feature, it's a downgrade. That is like the LCD manufacture going "Ok, we need a better screen.. one with better view angle and vivid colors, without increasing the cost in anyway. HEY let's use an ultra glossy screen, as the lack of texture on the plastic does exactly what we want... hehe suckers!" All professional LCD screen are non-glossy. It's one of the reason why they are more expensive (as they actually need to make the screen better).
    Glossy screen means distraction, means you see yourself, means you see the light and people behind you. Why have a glossy screen, when you can have a a better screen, non-glossy which gives you better or the same result.

    Not from what i read. (http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2009/02/17-macbook-pro-disassembly-reveals-ginormous-battery.ars) you need to send your laptop to Apple for replacement, meaning weeks without a laptop. Business sense, it does not make any sense. I am at university and I need to change my battery (lets' say), why do I need to lose my notes, be unable to work on it (as I won't have it) for several weeks, to replace a battery. Here I can just order one and replace the battery myself.


    Yes, I have the same one in Quadro series. The Quadro NVS 160M. Same GPU. Install the Geforce drivers instead of the Quadro, and you get the similar results (can still manage more polygons and texture rendering but loses on some effects a bit... so balanced out in comparison). And as you can see Hybird SLI is not a problem on this machine, by looking at the battery life of this machine.


    Really? Here how I scroll on my machine:
    - Middle mouse button + tilt the pointer stick mouse in the direction you want.
    - or, on the touch pad, slide your finger on the edge like any touchpad, but instead of lifting your finger you slide it to the center and perform a circle, and you continuously scroll in the direction you want. One finger action. Does a great job. And yes you can zoom in/out as well with it. It's very well done I can promise you that, and it doesn't get confused between scrolling/zooming when you use it to move your cursor.

    Yes you are, and no your its not. You just can't accept that competition exists, and that they are better choices that exists. I know that Dell was not always at the top, I know that for several years Apple had the best machine, but not anymore, that is the beauty of competition. Will it change? For sure!

    BTW, this is not a flame war, it's a comparison sheet with comments.
     
    Last edited: 21 Feb 2009
  11. fodder

    fodder Member

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    Ok, I ahve taken on this on board and physically checked some facts. I hold may hand up, the CPU spec is different in favour of the mac. 2.4 duo to a 2.6 duo, that's about £350 according to Dell upgrade cost.

    Absolutely right. A mid or low spec windows based machine with onboard graphics for example is not like a macbook pro. However, a top spec M1330 is not a 'cheap' or low spec laptop, and I would argue that hardware and build quality wise is a very very fair comparison.

    Erm, have you seen an M1330? Yes, it's back edge where the hinge is may be slightly higher (about 3mm I think) than a macbook pro, but the front edge is a lot smaller. I own both and the Dell hinge is considerably more robust.

    The Dell does not have a backlit keyboard, never noticed as never ever had the occasion to use it (yes I fly a lot, and the cabin light is always sufficient).

    M1330 does have an LED display. webcam (decent), not sure about motion sensors but then what's the point? It does have a biometric scanner though which makes logging in more secure than a password, and nice media controls plus media direct so I don't have to boot into windows to watch a movie or play music etc.

    OSX, as I mentioned, doesn't really come into the balance. It's just a different tool for the same jobs. What I will say is the amount of stuff you will never ever use is slightly annoying and utterly useless as a whole. It does have an easy backup utility built in though, which is excellent. Shame I have never managed to get it to work properly on rebuild, the intention is something M$ should pick up on IMHO.


    I think you will find on checking that it is, and it was £750 versus £2250 adjusting for my CPU error. (also, 8400GS versus 8600M, so a little more give there too). It is a rip off, no other way of putting it really.

    Re the screen damage issue. I have to agree. The amount of macbooks I have seen with a nice 'keyboard' grid pattern on the screen is a lot. If your lumping these things about day in day out on the road they get a lot of abuse which macbooks don't quite take as well as a dell.

    Back on topic :)..... People who buy a mac are generally more fashion conscious so buy for a different reason, not a tool to do a job. That has to reduce their objectivity surely. You cannot compare the two in this kind of survey.
     
  12. harveypooka

    harveypooka Fond of rumpots and crackpots

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    Haha! Brilliant. I love competition. It creates cheaper, faster, better products. So, yes, I am incredibly aware there is competition. And I'm all up for choice, why the hell would I ever suggest choice is a negative thing?!

    I bought my Mac because it lets me do what I want it to do, usually. I didn't buy it because it was pretty or fashionable.
     
  13. Nexxo

    Nexxo * Prefab Sprout – The King of Rock 'n' Roll

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    Exactly: different mindset, different motives, different needs. Apple products are not inherently better or worse than their non-Apple counterparts; they're just different. They're designed with a different philosophy in mind, aimed at a different target group, purchased for different reasons.

    All this "Apple products are crap and overpriced" fanboy-ism is getting a bit tired, to be honest. It is much like a bunch of teenagers arguing over X-Boxes vs. PS3's vs. Wii's. None of them are knowledgeable and objective enough to make a valid and balanced comparison, and none can just let the other be happy with their choice. Who are people trying to convince about the inferiority of Apple products here? Those who buy Apple products, or themselves?
     
  14. harveypooka

    harveypooka Fond of rumpots and crackpots

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    Well said.

    Celebrate the differences and understand choices and decisions.
     
  15. fodder

    fodder Member

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    Absolutely. I'm not saying apple products are crap at all, just that they are overpriced. They are the masters of marketing, and I take my hat off to them for that.
     
  16. harveypooka

    harveypooka Fond of rumpots and crackpots

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    One last thing. There is a lot more to a computer than technical specs. It's a good indicator, but it's a 10 point scale, with things rated 10 being the best. There is much more to a machine that what a manufacturer tells you. What quality is the screen, really? How long does the battery really last? What sort of components are used onboard - cheap, expensive, new? Any issues with any of it? Etc, etc.
     
  17. GoodBytes

    GoodBytes How many wifi's does it have?

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    Huh? You are truly insane.

    Everything I mentioned is true and correct. no used part, numbers are correct, nothing is broken, everything is of quality. I checked of course. How? Well I opened it, there is only 1 screw (very well engineered). You remove that screw, and slide the panel and it you have full access to the machine. CPU, RAM, Northbridge, etc.. are all on reverse, so that they point down and keep the palm rest and keyboard from being hot, even if you gave for several hours. The motherboard on this machine is comparable to ASUS brand motherboard. Battery life is correct too. Battery is from Panasonic, same for the optical drive. LCD is the highest-end that LG makes (I checked, the others the specs are not that good). Everything has quality on to it. Nothing cheap or iffy. I know it's hard to imagine this for you, but it is true, JUST LOOK AT REVIEWS!

    Baterry life (with 9cell)
    - Max battery life that you get out of the machine with the Quadro with new battery: 9 hours and 25min.
    - Max battery life with new battery, with Quadro, with wireless ON: 9 hours.
    - Non stretching, using computer like a desktop, screen always on, wireless on, surfing the web with ads, having im program, checking e-mail with Thunderbird several times, open/close many programs, have Aero transparency turned on, use flip3D several times: 7 hours and half.
    - Same as above with internet radio, 50% speaker volume: 6 hours and half.
    - Playing FarCray 2 on battery, wireless on, 50% speakers volume, having some programs open on the back: 4 hours.

    If I attach the 12 cell (12 cell + 9 cell), review sites claim ~19 hours of battery life stretching with the Nvidia Quadro. As explained before, this machine can hold 2 batteries at the same time and managed them. I don't have the 12-cell battery.
     
  18. harveypooka

    harveypooka Fond of rumpots and crackpots

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    I don't think I'm insane to say that there is more to computers than technical specs. Often manufacturers quote a certain value, only for it to be lower or higher in reality or some parts can wear out, break or are defective. I'm speaking generally for people who decide to purchase laptop A over laptop B.
     
  19. GoodBytes

    GoodBytes How many wifi's does it have?

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    ok, well quality on this machine is clearly there. I mean this is business class, meaning maximum reliability. Again, if it was a cheap-o-quality system, trust me, it WOULD NOT have a 3 year warranty, and would be sold under Dell Home with these 600$ systems - these are cheap systems -. Dell currently, today that means, aims not only at ultra low cost system, but also the high end market, with the XPS and Business class Latitude series.
    In a way, that damages the image of Dell, as a lot of people buy their low end system, and brakes easily (as they are cheaply made to reduce the cost, and put all these "ad" software (trial-version) to cut the cost down at max. But, it is no reason to generalize. Heck I know that ASUS, for example, their motherboard are not super well made as people claim (well in Canada), and their service is abysmal. But, their sound card department is like a hole different company in Canada, this includes great service. It's strange, but it all depends on how a company is structured.
     
  20. fodder

    fodder Member

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    I agree. But I still don't think it would make it worth double the cost. Also, in my (20 year) experience of Apple Macintosh base units, they have mostly used outdated and poor quality components. They were still using 2x CD rom drives in top spec power pc units when you couldn't even buy less than a 12x anywhere. I know, I had to replace one and my boss insisted I used like for like so I had to buy one from Apple at 4x the cost of a 12x drive. Absolutely insane.

    They do package it nicely now though, and as they are using 'standard' components like everone else it is just down to the build quality. Which, btw, doesn't mean just the case :) And as I have already mentioned, they can't take as much abuse/use as the Dells I and colleagues have used.
     
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