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News Apple seeks injunction against Psytar

Discussion in 'Article Discussion' started by CardJoe, 26 Nov 2009.

  1. Orothe

    Orothe What's a Dremel?

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    Why not? Easier to make a steering wheel than a car, and your still making a sale of some sort. =)
     
  2. AshT

    AshT Custom User Title

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    lol ... although this doesn't surprise me in the slightest, it's still funny that someone actually posted that. Smugness isn't a unique thing to some Apple owners, it's the same with houses, cars, jobs, handbags, jewellery, PC's even ... you'll always get people like that ... that's life.


    Won't happen, Apple's legal costs are a drop in the ocean, Psystar's legal costs will end up destroying them.


    MS is a software company, so of course they wouldn't complain!


    Slight difference between a £100/$150 steering wheel and a £15,000/$22,500 car ... :p
     
  3. Jumeira_Johnny

    Jumeira_Johnny 16032 - High plains drifter

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    Apple is primarily a hardware company, always has been. That is where the profits come from. Let OSX out into the wild, and you remove a primary reason to buy Apple hardware. So, it doesn't make any sense to do it. Not only that, but why support hard ware you don't have to? This way Apple makes life easy for themselves; with limited hardware configurations to support, they are able to maximize their investment into making it work better. The fact is, on Apple hardware, OSX requires no intervention from the user barring hardware failure.
    But you can dictate the terms at the moment of sale, which they do. In fact there are 1000's of products that tell you how you can and can not use them after the sale.
     
    Last edited: 27 Nov 2009
  4. dyzophoria

    dyzophoria Minimodder

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    apple doesnt want to separately sell their OS coz they dont have the balls to create an OS that could support hardware from different manufacturers,lol, they want it simple, if you have limited hardware to support, then the less the probability of the thing breaking down , heck if windows only supported hardware supplied by MS, I wouldnt be surprised if it never ever gets a BSOD.

    Apple knows that these are the factors that will greatly affect their phrase "it just works"
     
  5. hexx

    hexx What's a Dremel?

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    They failed to provide receipts for purchases and during the investigation different versions of mac os x have been found which they duplicated and sold to their customers. doesn't seem a legal way, does it?

    In order to install a mac os x you need a unique apple id and this is where psystar hacked into mac os and replaced original bootloader with their customized version which used hacked apple id.

    You cannot parasite on someone's brand and R&D and build business around it. for those interested in more details please refer to groklaw.net, direct link: http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20091124092210278

    As you can see from that article it's not just this. Psystar tried to use this trial to get VCs to inject money and they tried to use this position to build their brand name and they hoped to gain unique position on the market before other manufacturers try to follow and sell mac os x. so in other words they are bunch of parasites.

    Other bit discusses a survey about psystar computers where customers would contact or blame apple if psystar offering fails in any way which isn't really apples fault and is damaging apple's brand name. There are proofs of psystar customers calling appleCare and demanded support from apple although they've bought their boxes from psystar.

    Psystar hacked someone's property, parasites on someone's brand name and recognition and R&D. I cannot call this a proper business practice. Bunch of thieves, not mentioning they've stolen bits of code from hackint0sh community and tried to sell it as Rebel EFI.
     
  6. DAVID3004

    DAVID3004 What's a Dremel?

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    Once you go mac, you never go back

    People (like me) spend a premium on apple hardware and software for one reason: innovation. What Apple are doing is what PC manufacturers and software companies are trying to emulate. Essentially, Pystar is stealing an idea, not trying to better it, and in the process, could be damaging Apple's credibility and reputation for the future. I was a die-hard PC user, and couldn't understand the fuss about macs, until i actually got one. It is a great piece of software and a great piece of hardware - as they say, it just works. Ive had macs for a few years now, and it doesn't crash, doesn't slow down, and doesnt go wrong - not once in all of the time i've had one. I admit there is a bit of exclusivity about owning a mac, and that's because people who have one realise how well they work. I would never go back to a PC and would recommend a mac to anybody. I appreciate they are more expensive, but Apple is moving us forward faster than anyone else at the moment, and if that's where my money is going, then its money well spent in my opinion.
     
  7. Rkiver

    Rkiver Cybernetic Spine

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    Really? Their hardware is the same as what's in a "regular" pc. They just charge a huge markup. Want an extra TB hard drive? €200. Want 12gigs of ram? €2000. The parts don't cost that, and sure as hell don't cost that to install.

    If Apple is moving us forward faster, please explain how. I honestly cannot see it. I have Mac OSX, I've used it. I've used Mac Pros, and there is nothing they can do that a pc that costs a fraction of the cost cannot do also.

    As for "It just works"....I point out the upgrade from 10.5 to 10.6 deleting users files. That's hardly working.
     
  8. hexx

    hexx What's a Dremel?

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    have you updated from 10.5 to 10.6 yourself and lost user files? what user files? or you're just talking about what you've read somewhere few months back? Because i've updated my box and no problem, i've updated 3 other boxes and no problem. And who tells you to buy upgrades from apple? you are free to get your upgrades from whatever shop you like.

    And if you cannot really spot any difference between using a mac and a win box then you're the lucky one and can save some money. I'm using both mac and win and i can see the difference clearly - no way i will ever own a win box, actually i've got my win box for sale - macbook pro replaced it completely.
     
  9. DAVID3004

    DAVID3004 What's a Dremel?

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    (If Apple is moving us forward faster, please explain how) - Er, OK!

    My argument is not with the cost, Im aware that the hardware is the same, but Apple are able to create such a stable system because they can configure the two, that's not something you get with a pc, and that's what Apple are trying to protect. I know that Apple charge a premium for hardware, but if you want to pay less for hardware that doesn't work as efficiently, that's up to you.

    You cant see how Apple is moving us forward!! Are you serious!?!? The Ipod, the Imac and the Iphone. I don't think i need to expand any further do i? (but i could) I'm not saying that a PC can't do what a mac can at all, I'm saying that Apple are innovating - that's not hard to see.

    All i can go by is my own experience. Im on 10.6 with no problems.
     
  10. gavomatic57

    gavomatic57 Minimodder

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    Give Apple their dues, I love my macbook pro. But coming from a linux perspective, the only benefit of using OSX over a linux distro is the support from large 3rd party developers - the adobe's and even Microsoft's of the world. OSX is nice to use, but I don't see it as a great deal better than Windows and whilst its UNIX underpinning makes for a decent level of security, Apple are so lax when it comes to patching known vulnerabilities that it does put doubts in your mind as to whether or not you are as safe as you think.

    For me, the one killer app on my default mac desktop is iMovie, because it is probably the easiest video editing package I've used and will create HD MP4 files, whereas I've yet to find a Windows video editor that will do that at sizes above ipod and PSP resolutions. It's a shame, because my PC has far more grunt than my laptop, but the laptop has better software....

    What's the answer? A mac desktop? Not at those prices. They're way beyond "reassuringly expensive".

    As for it "just works", the guest account bug was a bit embarassing...
     
  11. Matticus

    Matticus ...

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    While I hate apple's business strategy and I find them far to closed and proprietary, they have a point. They have made it, they have written the terms and conditions and someone has broken it.

    You can say that they are taking it too far by trying to get some money back for it, psytar have made money from it so it makes sense.

    But it is about time that they allow it to be installed on any hardware, people clearly want to use it. If they are worried about it having trouble on different hardware configurations then maybe they should try a bit harder, and stop doing those stupid mac VS PC adverts.
     
  12. AshT

    AshT Custom User Title

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    You haven't read any of this thread have you?
     
  13. Rkiver

    Rkiver Cybernetic Spine

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    The iPod? Hardly moving forward. It's well packaged, however there were other mp3 players long before it that are better value. The iMac? It's a laptop built into a screen. Sure it's well built but it's not that great. The iPhone.....people talk like it's a god. It's got a good touch screen alright, but it's not that great a phone overall.

    As for differences between Mac and Win box. My Pc is both. I run OSX on it to see what it is like, I purchased OSX legally, though I have broken the TOS to run it alright. The difference, I can game a lot better on windows then I can on a Mac (or linux).

    All I'm saying is that Apple could release their OS a lot more. People will still go for form over function, and that is what Mac is all about.
     
  14. AshT

    AshT Custom User Title

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    50% of desktop computer sales were attributed to Apple in the US, for October 2009.

    iPod accounts for 70% of MP3 market.

    iPhone is approaching 50% of smartphone market.

    That's right, all these people are brainwashed. yawn.
     
  15. Gareth Halfacree

    Gareth Halfacree WIIGII! Staff Administrator Super Moderator Moderator

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  16. DAVID3004

    DAVID3004 What's a Dremel?

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    Is anybody in there??

    Nice review of what is considered to be some of the most influential technology and design of the last couple of decades :thumb: Can't wait to see what ideas you have in the pipeline!

    That has just confirmed it, you really don't know what you are talking about.

    :duh::wallbash: PC = functionality!! :duh::wallbash:
     
  17. AshT

    AshT Custom User Title

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  18. Rkiver

    Rkiver Cybernetic Spine

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    Well David you have your opinion, I have mine. Simple as that really.

    As for the mac sales figures. No they weren't 48% of desktop sales. They were 48% of the revenue of the sales, but they sell for a much higher price.
     
  19. Byron C

    Byron C Over-reacting and over-analysing since 1982

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    I'm afraid I haven't read the full comment thread, so forgive me if I flog some dead horses. I also read this on The Register, and the groklaw article they linked to, before reading the bit-tech story. I grant you that my source for what is to follow is only one website, but that was enough for me to understand the facts.

    When I first heard about this, way back in time, my reaction was: Apple using their ubercorporate power to unfairly shut down a small plucky company. Now that I've read about this a lot more and have been following the story, I am with Apple on this one.

    First some background. Mac hardware has a decryption key built into the BIOS (well, the EFI, actually - PC's haven't got round to fully supporting EFI over BIOS yet), which the OSX software looks for in order to decrypt the software. The OSx86 hacker community have reverse engineered this protection method in order to create bootloaders that bypass the requirement of having an Apple-signed EFI key in the hardware - thus allowing the OSX discs to boot on non-Apple systems. It's not particularly legal (heard of the DMCA?), or above board, for a community of hackers to do this and release the files for free to start with; however it is a completely different thing for someone to actively sell this as a retail product. That is most definitely illegal and an infringement of Apple's IP. Especially when the code that Psystar's RebelEFI product uses is based on (read: ripped off from) the code that the hackers have originally released for free.

    There's a little bit of very interesting info that this article misses, but the groklaw article references. This is an extract of evidence submitted to the court; it's a pitch to venture capitalists prepared by Psystar:

    What the BT article also missed, which is also in another piece of evidence submitted, is that Psystar have been heavily using Apple's trademarks and copyrighted material in their advertising - implying a legitimate relationship between the two companies (not to mention unauthorised use of Apple's copyrighted & trademarked material). Given that, and their VC pitch, it can be inferred that Psystar were actively trying to get sued by Apple in order to get a head start on what they saw as a market that would emerge.

    Their assumption that the EULA is an illegal contract was, of course, completely false: the court has upheld the EULA and did not declare it invalid. Kind of unravels their business plan.

    I really hope that Apple crush Psystar so far into the ground that they'll never go near the IT market again - in whatever form the company may be left in. This is an unscrupulous, dirty, illegal and immoral way to do business, IMO.


    For the record, I am a die-hard PC user who has never purchased or owned any Mac. I have dabbled with using OSX on my Dell netbook, but I went back to Windows and re-sold the OSX DVD that I bought.


    You sir, have hit one of the biggest nails in this case on the head: Psystar's actions will devalue Apple's brand and tar their reputation. Their products have the reputation for being aesthetically pleasing, simple to use and flawless in operation and reliability. That's why the Apple and Mac brands carry such a high price tag. That's where it'll hurt Apple the most, as they have spent millions building their brand & reputation. If that was your money, I'm sure you'd want to protect your baby.



    EDIT: Serves me right for not reading all comments - it appears that hexx has already linked to the same groklaw article, and made many of the same points I did... :D Flogging dead horses indeed! :)
     
    Last edited: 27 Nov 2009
  20. AshT

    AshT Custom User Title

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    Ack, I did read those figures as actual desktop units, my bad. As I read it I though it was quite dramatic, that'd be why!

    However I'm translating those figures as people are willing to spend more to get the quality and service. And I know the other side of the fence will be translating as "mugs! brainwashed victims!"

    And the never-ending-argument goes on ;)
     
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