Discussion in 'Article Discussion' started by Da Dego, 23 Aug 2006.
They broke their contract, their own fault.
They got what they deserved, we may not agree with it, but they agreed to it when they signed that contract
As it has been explained in many other threads over in SD: It's hard to be the good guy. I can understand that he's upset over losing his job, but I don't think it's right to point a finger back at Apple, unless I misunderstood the intent of his quote.
By confessing, he accepts the consequences with a clear conscience. He knew he was violating Apple's terms, and I assume he knew the consequences when he made the decision to download the dev build.
I applaud him for confessing; it was the right thing to do. But I don't think it's fair for him to question Apple. I think the kind of employee Apple desires is the kind that doesn't violate ethics policies to begin with.
If they were honest enough to admit to their actions, they should be honest enough to accept that they deserve to be fired for what they've done. The fact that they complained about being fired for telling the truth is like pleading guilty to a crime and expecting all the charges to be dropped. They broke the rules, and they have to face the consequences, and be mature enough to realise that they are at fault for their situation.
you broke the rules you get fired, as simple as that.
its sad but true, they signed the contract then they should know what to do and what not to do.
Talking about stealing from the company that employs you while at work...genious!
To bad it didn't end in someone's death because these guys NEED to be in the next Darwin Awards.
Lovely how Apple can get these employee issues solved so quickly.
If only they were so prompt to deal with their exploding laptops...
Seems simple to me, don't work anyplace that tries to tell you what you can and can't do when you're not at work. As I read the article, they didn't download this while at work, but rather at home and were discussing it at work.
To be honest that's not what this story is about Sinner666, DXR_13Ke, Zero82z, Supermonkey and DougEdgey.
The idea is that they know they broke their contract, they seem to have accepted being fired for it, but they're questioning whether they should've lied about having it. If they had, would they still be there?
Is it almost encouraging their employees to lie about their actions?
That's what they're questioning.
If I would have lost some crappy part time job I'm pretty sure it wouldn't be in the media.
The 'over-medialization' of Apple is just stupid.
To me it looks more like they're complaining about being fired for being honest. They do have a slightly legitimate point, however if everyone got away with breaking the rules by admitting to it, it wouldn't prevent anyone from doing it again.
I could care less what hypothetical scenario's they ponder in regards to ethics. They're still fools.
Oh come on, their just trying to get press time to say they were fired because they were "honest" they were probably just having a chat about it and someone overheard them.
If anything I think they were stupid, realised they were in the wrong and decided to try and make it sound like they are angels.
How many people do you think have broken their NDAs in their job and not been fired for it? Hundreds, if not hundreds of thousands probably.
usually you get leniency for admitting your crimes, instead of denying it, then being found to be lying
however they did sign a contract, and they broke it, they don't really have a leg to stand on, however its a little sad that Apple are really so incredibly strict
Anyway, its their own fault for discussing it at work, probably fired for being morons
They do it to protect their assets... Which I totally agree with; You sign a contract, you have to stick to the agreed terms.
If I work in a company, with sensitive papers, I have to agree to a "non-disclosure" act. If I talk about those papers in my free time, I broke the agreement. Simple as that.
that's true, but its not like the employees are sharing sensitive information
Anyone else can get the copy of tiger (or whatever its called now) but the employees (who should probably be told about it anyway, as they are an employee after all) get nothing
Their going to have to sell this OS, shouldn't they know about it
If this were a publically available OS, then I might agree with you, but as I understand it the employees were downloading a dev build of Leopard, which is not publically available. And as the article points out:
When it comes time to sell the product, I would assume they would receive at least a basic level of training about said product.
As I said before: they knew the rules, they broke the rules. Sure, they were honest and fessed up to what they did, but that should prevent them from being fired. If they had lied about it they may have faced worse punishment than losing their jobs. People have received far worse punishments for breaking NDAs.
I would like to know how they got a hold of the dev build.
Considering it was the DEV build, Apple could have pressed charges. *just* losing their job could very well be this leniency you are reffering to.
Thats completely beside the point. Thats delving into gripes with apples employee policy, not their actions against employees grabbing illegal copies of the software (non developers with developer builds is essentailly an illegal copy).
This must all have been put in place after they figuered out what happened in 1984(?) Does anybdy recall that Steve Jobs was the one who showed Bill Gates their computer? The one with the Graphichal User Interface -GUI?
Probably TPB or somthing like that like everyone else. I seriously doubt that any retail employee would have access to the dev software through work, so it seems most likley to me they got it on the net at home and were discussing it.
To me, that's what makes the difference. These employees are being punished for somthing they did AT HOME that has no connection to work. As far as I am concerned Apple, or any company for that matter, has no business telling their employees what they can or cannot do when they are not at work unless it directly affects their work performance. Had the employees obtained the DEV copy from work and used it at home that would be a different matter, but it doesn't appear to me that's what happened here.
In short, I'd sign a NDA when hell freezes over, and definatly not for a retail job.
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