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News Apple's Cook heaps scorn on Microsoft's Metro UI

Discussion in 'Article Discussion' started by brumgrunt, 25 Apr 2012.

  1. XXAOSICXX

    XXAOSICXX Minimodder

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  2. Brooxy

    Brooxy Loser of the Game

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    Yup I think so - I just think it's a better way of organising the main programs you need for easy quick access.

    One annoyance is the messenger app is schizophrenic at best for me. It signs me in and out more than a hooker's underwear goes up and down. But then that's completely going off topic...
     
  3. Dewi

    Dewi What's a Dremel?

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    The OSX most advanced OS in the world line got tiresome years ago, especially given the core design is now what 12 years old.

    And yet the more I think about it, the more I come to te conclusion that my next work computer is going to be a Mac (probably a MacBook Air). I adore taking my PC to pieces, upgrading it so it will run the latest Sims (simulations, not the big brotheresque EA franchise) and generally fixing the latest problem that arises. But if that's my attitude, then I'm better off with a second work computer that just, well umm works. And for that kind of no stress environment; at the moment the people at Apple make a compelling product.

    And I think that is where a lot of the concerns with Windows 8 are coming from. It doesn't seem like an OS that is built for soeone who just wants to write a letter, or recieved the odd email from a relative. It seems like an OS that has every social media portal /fashion / fad bolted on and intergrated into it by default. And that means there is a lot of code that could be flawed, a lot of potential driver issues, potential security flaws other failure points. And that's not what the average user wants from their PC. It's no coincidence that the best OS's MS have ever built have been Windows 98 SE, Windows XP and Windows 7; in each case evolutionary jumps where they (arguably) stripped out a lot of the bloat they'd introduced in previous versions.

    MS are best when they build simple platforms that third parties can use to launch their innovative products. And to their credit they have built the best platform available to the IT world for that purpose. They are at their worst when they try and do the innovative stuff themselves, and Windows 8 looks like its going to be a prime example of that.
     
  4. XXAOSICXX

    XXAOSICXX Minimodder

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    Apparently not:

    http://www.apple.com/macosx/
     
  5. azrael-

    azrael- I'm special...

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    I'm completely agreeing with people saying that the Metro UX has no place on the desktop. Been fiddling around with both the Developer Preview and the Consumer Preview and even though the latter shows significant improvements it's still basically unusable on a desktop.

    Microsoft hasn't even tried to emulate the way you use the touch interface with the mouse. My very first thought on this was "why doesn't click'n'drag work?" Apparently I'm not the only one, as I've read much the same in magazines, as well as having heard it "elsewhere". There was even a test somewhere, where people tried the touch interface on a touch-enabled screen and then failing utterly when put in front of a traditional desktop with a keyboard and mouse. Microsoft is doing usability studies? But of course they are...

    Whenever I think of the hot spots in Win8 I immediately think of how they behave in full screen programs (i.e. games). Will the charms etc. pop up when you move your mouse cursor into one of the corners? If so, it's the Windows key debacle all over again... :p
     
  6. Brooxy

    Brooxy Loser of the Game

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    That's actually a brilliant point, I never thought about that. Either a lockout when a full screen app is running or a toggle key to switch the hotspots on and off would be a good bet.

    Will have a play with a full screen program and see what happens tomorrow - running a VM, my choices of what to use are a bit limited, but I'll find something. Hopefully Starcraft 1 w/Brood War
     
  7. azrael-

    azrael- I'm special...

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    I'm running Win8 in a VM as well, which is why I haven't tried playing games with it either. I expect the people at Microsoft thought of that potential problem and made sure it won't happen, but you never know.
     
  8. HiMyNameIsWill

    HiMyNameIsWill What's a Dremel?

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    This is a PC enthusiasts forums. Enjoy your Crapbook.

    http://www.seattlerex.com/seattle-rex-vs-apple-the-verdict-is-in/
     
  9. XXAOSICXX

    XXAOSICXX Minimodder

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    I don't know what kind of work you do, but the very idea of using a MacBook Air in a work environment boggles the mind.

    An 1.8GHz i7 with a 256GB drive and a 13" screen (the biggest they do) is £1500...and that's with a max resolution of 1440x900, Intel HD 3000 graphics, no ethernet port. Sweet! Not.
     
  10. Gareth Halfacree

    Gareth Halfacree WIIGII! Lover of bit-tech Administrator Super Moderator Moderator

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    Depends on the job. As a journalist, I already use an HP Pavilion dm4 fairly-portable laptop, which doesn't have the world's fastest processor (a 2.4GHz Sandy Bridge chip, I think.) My next upgrade will either be a MacBook Air or an Ultrabook, for two reasons: portability and battery life.

    Most of the time, my laptop is used in the field for transcription, recording, writing and copy filing. The heaviest thing it'll be asked to do is edit a few raw files from my camera. I don't *need* a massive screen, eight-core 17GHz processor and a zillion terabytes of storage for that.

    Yes, I could buy a budget laptop instead - heck, my HP was about £700 when I got it. But the budget laptop would be bulkier, harder to carry, and have inferior battery life - even if it might have more storage or a marginally faster processor. If I have some heavy lifting to do, I've got my desktop. Hell, I can SSH tunnel to my home network from anywhere in the world and use the X server on my laptop to run tasks on my desktop's hardware if I feel the need.

    Don't fall into the trap of assuming everyone is like you. If your work requires a massive amount of RAM, storage, or processing power, that's one thing; but just because an Ultrabook or other ultra-portable wouldn't work for you doesn't mean it's useless for everyone.
     
  11. XXAOSICXX

    XXAOSICXX Minimodder

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    I think you misunderstood me. It's not the spec that's the issue, it's the spec of the machine for the money they're asking for it.

    My work is a mixture of typical office-type stuff, some coding, some media playback and, bizarrely, writing the odd magazine article :p

    I work off a Sony Vaio laptop that wasn't much less than £1500 but is a vasty superior spec and is inherently more appropriate for working with tools like MS Office, Visual Studio, connecting to the corporate domain and playing games ;)
     
  12. Nexxo

    Nexxo * Prefab Sprout – The King of Rock 'n' Roll

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  13. Gareth Halfacree

    Gareth Halfacree WIIGII! Lover of bit-tech Administrator Super Moderator Moderator

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    But I'll bet it's significantly bulkier and heavier than a MacBook Air, yes? With the Air - and, by extension, all non-Apple Ultrabooks - you're paying for the reduction in size and weight over a traditional laptop. With Apple, you're also paying the 'Apple tax' on top, but there we are - some people think that's worth the extra. Personally, I'd rather buy a non-Apple device - I'm only going to stick Linux on the damn thing anyway, so I may as well save myself the cash...
     
  14. XXAOSICXX

    XXAOSICXX Minimodder

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  15. XXAOSICXX

    XXAOSICXX Minimodder

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    Absolutely...it's certainly not ultra-portable. You've hit the nail on the head, though....Apple Tax....which is precisely why, in the business context, I wouldn't even be entertain it unless there was a specific piece of software that you absolutely cannot avoid using.
     
  16. d_stilgar

    d_stilgar Old School Modder

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    I'm not an Apple hater either, but I will say that the iOS interface was great when it debuted in 2007, but it's 2012 now and the Metro UI feels like the most modern mobile interface out there right now.

    Now, as for putting Metro on everything . . . I'll just wait until I get enough feedback on whether or not Windows 8 sucks or not. One thing that it seems to be leaning toward is a movement toward closed marketplace on Windows desktop machines as well. I particularly like being able to get a program from wherever I like and put it on my desktop. I don't want that to change.
     
  17. Dewi

    Dewi What's a Dremel?

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    That's pretty much my mindset. I already have a powerful desktop system; there isn't much point in having bulky powerful laptop as well... so I may as well go down the MacBook Air / Ultrabook route for the next portable PC and hook it up to a high res monitor when I'm at my desk.

    But enough on hardware as this thread is supposed to be about OS integration.

    10 years ago, I used a Windows 98 PC as my desktop workhorse and a PSION 7 running EPOC in much the same way as I would use an Ultra portable (if I had one) now. It was effective, but the problem came from compatibility between EPOC Word and MS Word 2000. In 2012, this isn't a problem. MS Word is pretty much compatible with iWork Pages, OpenOffice and goodness knows how many other word processing programmes. Standards have pretty much converged out of necessity now and we are better off for it.

    Which is why Apple feels it can have iOS for its phones and tablets and OSX for its computer range. It doesn't matter that you can't run the same programme on both platforms because the two equivalent programmes can read and process the same data and effectively work together.

    Microsoft on the other hand want to merge the environments, so that software on the PC works with the tablet (and presumably at some point the smartphone). Its a grand vision, but surely it requires one of two compromises. Either Tablets are going to have to focus on processing power at the expense of other attributes so that they can run software developed for the OS, or software is going to have to cut down so that it can work on the low powered tablets (which means Angry Birds type games becoming the PC norm). I can't see the former option working to well, and as someone who is enthusiastic about computer applications (games and others) that drive my PC hardware to the edge; I've very uncomfortable about the latter option personally.

    XXAOSICXX made a legitimate point about the Macbook Air (and other ultrabooks) being underpowered. Absolutely right, but if every game from next year is designed to run on tablet hardware running Windows 8 (which from a market penetration point of view makes sense); then surely we on this forum will lose our hobby as their won't be an enthusiast market left.
     
    Last edited: 25 Apr 2012
  18. Silver51

    Silver51 I cast flare!

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    Ask away good buddy. We have a test machine in the office specifically for Windows 8, because we're computer technicians and because it gives us something else to argue about.
     
  19. Sloth

    Sloth #yolo #swag

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    From the standpoint of a reasonably sized business I'd most certainly entertain the idea. It's entirely possible that Apple can make an offer which will match their PC competitors regardless of their consumer prices. When your IT department is asking for money to upgrade their systems they'd have to find a reason to justify spending more for Apple products. Apple certainly know this and likely have different pricing options or other benefits to sweeten deals.
     
  20. Brooxy

    Brooxy Loser of the Game

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    Fair play, it's just the way I read the previous comment made me think it was based upon speculation rather than experience. That said I've been doing six things at once all day, so probably got a bit confuzzled :)
     
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