Tried to use an apple Macbook pro in work. We usually use thinkpads. I found OSX severely limited in terms of just general productivity. I often switch between web browsers, spreadsheets, and development tools. With an external monitor I can have all 3 on screen in readable and easily switchable windows on the thinkpad. With OSX it feels like one or nothing. Lion's full screen and gestures helped, but it just feels cumbersome to work with. Only about 5% of my steam catalogue is compatible... hardware replacement parts cost too much... and my personal experiences with the Apple store have not been favourable. I also used an iphone for 6 months and found it restrictive, and although the build quality appeared good, when bits started falling off in 4 months, I determined it really wasn't well built. In contrast the HTC desire I replaced it with still works fine after 2 years, and hasn't any hardware issues. Only some of the colour has rubbed off. In terms of the company themselves, Jobs era Apple was basically something I couldn't support. Richest company in the world, yet couldn't support its own workers correctly, had a non-existant philanthropic program (yes they had product RED, but did you ever see a product red iOS device?), blatantly lied regularly, and didn't get into major legal action for any of it. Not to mention properly kicking off the patent wars. I have more respect for them now, as Tim Cook seems to actually care about fixing some of those issues, but I've yet to see if he will correct the core values of the company. Apple also encourages a culture that is frankly disturbingly like a cult. I've yet to meet an Apple fan in real life that can actually rationally argue why. "They don't get viruses!" "Nope... they do.", "My iPhone just works!" "Nope. Watch this avi movie on my memory stick without converting it.", "Its so well designed!" "Antenna fault? Broken glass? Overheating?" The responses are: *confusion* *change subject hurriedly* "Why would I want to do that??? "That doesn't happen!" At which point I easily prove it/get videos. Yes the Antenna thing happens. I was actually kinda shocked I could do it.
I'm not a an Apple hater, per se. I'll use them if I have to. But I'm not one that shells out money for a Mac. And my personal recommendation is, "Apple is just that: Another company, another player in the market. If you get an iProduct, I'm fine with that; it's your decision." My 2 biggest claims are both mentioned: The price. Sure, you may claim that your 5-year-old MacBook is indestructible, but is it upgradeable? My 5-year old Toshiba Satellite A105 is A: VERY well built, B: upgradeable, C: Best bass I've heard in a laptop. Seriously, you're locked with that processor; it's soldered onto the motherboard. Want another processor? Whole new motherboard. I want a new processor on my lappy mobo? Yep. I can switch between a Core 2 Duo and a Celeron in a matter of 2 minutes on my Satellite. And, honestly, I don't have the money to buy the latest version of Windoze. Yet I see no need to pirate it; Kubuntu and Wine run Steam like a charm. (can't wait for a native client for it, though....) As for tablets? I've got big hands. I find typing an a 3.5" screen to be a nightmare. There's the iPad, yes, but, again, I'm the kind of guy that wants my tech to do what I want it to do. The Toshiba Thrive 10.1 was a perfect match for me; it's big, and, as a bonus, it has a TON of expandability, which the iPad lacks. I've already dropped it (accidentally) from waist-level onto a solid brick floor. Not a single scratch. I fear that, if I had gotten an iPad, the screen would have shattered. Again, what cause the problems are not the company, it's the (anti-)fanboys.
I'm curious if you owned an Apple product. I used to say exactly the same things... then I happened to get a MacBook Pro. It has worse components than my Asus laptop and Apple costs ONLY $500 (2000 instead of 1500 USD) Asus is a useless device at home that has been collecting dust for 2 years now. It went for warranty/repairs twice and after almost no use. When I started to bring it to work every day, the screen hinges broke after 6 months. Right now it works, but when/opening closing plastic is being ripped & crushed. It is a flimsy ****, with amazing hardware inside. That said My Macbook once fell onto its corner from desk heigh and did not even shut off/crash Photoshop that was open. I never had to do anything, I just use it. Now I love some HP laptops and there is a range of choice. The are PCs that are just and even more sturdy and nice. But they also have premiums. It's just a range of choice & price. Just choose what you like & stop whining. My mac paid itself many times over. Now where I do not like Apple is that the brand is somewhat of a show off. There are people who wear Apple badges for bling. And this might be very tempting for company to cut corners. Like some iMacs were crap & had major issues.
But you don't really need to upgrade the MBP's, maybe a bit of new RAM and an SSD but they still work really well after 3 or 4 years unlike a windows laptop.
I actually think that Apple products are aesthetically brilliant and they've done wonders for pushing electronic style forward. HOWEVER I don't like is the ecosystem restrictions AND the elitism of the fan-boys. The worst example is my nephew (7 years old) raised in a house full of Apple products (10 I can count off the top of my head). He cannot refer to his phone as anything but "My iPhone" and when he asks about my iPhone (and tell him it's not an iPhone) he gives me a look like I'm to be pitied. I need to teach him the work "pretentious" I think.
No problem with apple. Although I have to deal with the annoyance that is Itunes when updating my aging and dying phone. (I can't afford anything new, I'm using a used unlocked 3GS). I have to admit, they're nice pieces of kit. But they have their inherent issues (as does any company). For us tinkerers and hackers though, the iproduct isn't for us, it's made to be too intuitive and locked down. Nevertheless there isn't a reason to hate them for it. It's made some of our lives easier, that's for sure. As for laptops, I'd kill for a MacBook Pro. I really would. But I can't justify spending $1000 for a laptop, any laptop. Hence it being priced out of my market means that i'll never own one. Hell the shiniest piece of kit I have is my $850 Desktop and my $230 tablet. They do fine.
You, of course, make a valid point, but I will say this; I have never felt the need to upgrade (or downgrade) my processor. Flexibility is always nice but I am left thinking that even with the option I wouldn't have changed the processor. I have swapped out the RAM and hard drive for an SSD though.
People have been saying iOS and OSX is restrictive but in what way? You can't change a theme? Can someone actually state these for me?
Rooting android phones is a good start.. I mean you can run ridiculous things on a Droid based phone. Admittedly it can be rougher than iOS based phones but dear god the amount of tinkering is immense. As for OSX my limited use with it has shown that I can't really cause it to suffer spectacular meltdowns. Not that open you know?
OSC does things differently. Getting used to that slows you down, but as with Windows, once you get the hang of it, it is intuitive and quick. Upgradeability I have not found a problem because the MacBook Air (2008 model) keeps up in spec and performance with current ultra books. And the residual value makes it a good resale item. The reason some Apple owners may get a bit evangelical is because it is their first experience of a computer that they can actually use. Apple sells the whole package. If you need help you go to one place. With a PC of one brand containing components of another brand running a OS of yet another brand it's not that simple. Compare PC World with the Apple shop and check out the difference. To us geeks it doesn't matter. To most ordinary people, who just want to do their work and not for their computer to to eat their PhD thesis on the night before submission, Apple feels reassuringly coherent and safe. I have a colleague who knows nothing about computers. She bought a cheap, but decent Dell laptop. The first week she dropped it and cracked the plastic case. The first month she screwed up Windows (I still don't know how, but I untangled it). The third month she screwed it up again. Since there is no Dell shop to go to, she took it to a local PC repair shop with a helpful but not very bright guy who untangled it but changed AVG anti-virus to Avira because he thought it is better, and put on a malware scanner which she doesn't need and doesn't know how to use. Then her HDD showed some bad sectors (left-over from the drop, I presume) and instead of letting it mark the sectors and ignore them from now on the same guy changed the HDD. Combining the price of the laptop with all the repair charges she has clocked up by now, I wonder if she wouldn't have been better off with a second-hand MacBook. She could have taken it to the Apple shop where it's staff are at least nominally trained to handle its specific hard- and software. Arguably she would not have cracked the case and screwed up the OS in the first place. There is a reason OSX doesn't let you screw around.
Nice post Nexxo. It's funny how this "Why do people hate apple so much?" thread just brought the haters out of the woodwork. They cost too much! I can't hack them! The apple store upgrades cost to much! They are just PCs running a different operating system! I like the machines it's the users I hate! They treat their staff so bad! Apple doesn't do anything new they just steal from others! It's just a Unix / BSD / Linux clone really! But they do get virus infections! The java exploit in 2012 proves my point that to advertise the machines as virus free in 2008 was lying! The iPhone OS is too locked down, I can't recompile my own distro! They never do anything new! Blah blah blah. If you don't like the way Apple does things then you won't like the way Windows is going either, as Microsoft is very much looking to emulate some of the success Apple has had, from partially locking down the OS to running curated app stores. Intel are playing catch up on both fronts... Fighting ARM for CPU sales and the Macbook Air with their Ultrabook program. It's it great that we have a real choice in the market? If someone wants a computer they can choose a PC or a Mac. 10/15 years ago the choice wasn't the same as the options available for Macs were fewer. Why so much hate? If you want a cheap(ish) modable hackable desktop PC then buy a PC. If you want a cheap and cheerful laptop then buy a PC laptop, same with a desktop. If raw CPU / GPU power is more important than the running OS or your own tweaking time then buy a PC. If you want the widest range of games playable with a mouse and keyboard then buy a PC. There are simply dozens of really good reasons why people should buy PCs. There are also very good reasons to buy a Mac. Apple isn't successful purely through clever advertising, it's because they make lovely products that work, continue working with minimum intervention and that people genuinely like to use.
My problem with Apple (and yes I use both systems) is generally the users and their blind loyalty, superiority and fanboysim. They also tend to start threads like this. Although paying more and getting less is also a reason I dislike them. Lack of customisation also. Oh... and while people think they look cool... the fact that they're all the same: one brand, one product, one look.... which means you're a sheep essentially. I like individualism in my stuff. Macs are great for a good out of the box experience for those who have no interest in computers. Windows PCs are best for those with an active interest in their hardware and need performance without having to remortgage to get it. That pretty much sums it up for me.
I switched to OS X in 2003 full-time, purchasing a PowerMac G5 with a then-amazing 20" LCD (that LCD cost over £1200!). Since then my main computing hardware has been Apple, usually of the PowerMac/Mac Pro variety with a few laptops along the way to spice things up. Of course, the halo effect kicked in and I own iPods/iPhones/iPads... It took a few weeks to get used to, but I'm now way more productive in OS X than Windows. Yes, you have to learn how Apple do things...but that's just unlearning how Microsoft do things. I'll happily admit that Apple costs more, but then as Nexxo says, you can just take a problem in to a shop where somebody will actually be able to help. Admittedly this wasn't the case in the early 2000s, before Apple opened retail stores, but I haven't had many problems at all. They have a remarkably good telephone support system as well. The cost, today, will buy you a decent machine in terms of specs. Laptops are up there with other makes (quad core i5/i7 etc), but the design and quality of the build sets them apart. Apple are a premium manufacturer, similar to the top-end Sony etc. and they cost just as much (if not more!). Apple also turn the whole thing in to a bit of a lottery, waiting for updates to get the most for your money. Yet I'm still happy to acknowledge that Macs aren't for everybody, nor should they be. Gaming is still woeful, simply due to entrenched support for Windows and DirectX, and is likely to remain so. Equally, if you don't like Apple's way of doing things then go buy something else. I've got a PC just for games, because I acknowledge that it's the best way to do it. However, I've also switched several people to Macs. My other half, my parents, a slew of friends, and all are happy as pigs in sh-... I used to get calls every week from my mum asking for tech support on their PC, now I get one every few months, usually because she's forgotten the difference between H.264 and MPEG4. I haven't had to reinstall the OS since she got the iMac in 2008, and she even managed to do the upgrade to Snow Leopard and Lion by herself. That simply wouldn't have happened with Windows. This may make people think that OS X is for people who don't know how to use computers, and that it's for idiots, with accompanying lock-down on what you can do. That's simply wrong. Apple have managed to create an OS that is easy to use, as well as being incredibly powerful under the hood. Learn a bit of Terminal (ie: 'nix commands) and you can do anything. However, I've never bother changing the overall theme because what Apple provides simply works. As for Apple's policies? Surely they're no worse than anybody else, and better in many respects. How many companies out there go out and increase the wages of their Chinese workers, and actually inspect the factories? Apple get bad press because they're the ones challenging current practice, highlighting existing poor conditions. Of course, nobody else out there seems to care to change how they work. As for the IP war, it's ridiculous, but unfortunately just part of the US patent system. Reform that, problem goes away.
I hate Apple for their bad business practices. They sue any one who makes a product which is better than their own.
My only apple use the iPhone. Had one since the 3G - now on a 4S. I find it a great phone overall, jailbroken even better. Only thing I find a constant PITA is the restriction on the bluetooth stack - I really don't understand why bluetoothing photos to another non-apple handset is so bad or why using an external gps would be so evil. Sure they have there reasons but Its a pain that they give so much and the worth or apps etc but miss features I've had on basic nokia handsets since bluetooth first hit mainstream. I do like it tho and have also recently got an Ipad which I'm liking too.
Am I the only one who mixes and matches products to suit my needs? I have an iPod 5th gen because it's somewhat rugged, has plenty of storage, can be accessed by my favourite music handling program (WinAmp) and is easy to use on the go. My desktop is the 2500k system in my sig as I like to have oodles of power and the ability to play games. Besides that, I like to tinker with hardware. My laptop is currently an HP 2510p tablet though on its last legs as the screen hinge is wobbly and the 1,2 ghz low power dualcore is struggling with Maple 15 and Sketchup. When I start mechanical engineering in a years time I'll probably go for a 13" laptop, preferably with a nice high resolution and multitouch screen. If it by that time is the Apple iMacBook then so be it - though I will probably still install Windows as I am tinkerer by heart. The reason for a Macbook would be that it's solidly built and esthetically much more pleasing than my current HP business laptop. Though it lacks the nipple mouse For my personal computing sphere at home I like to have it Windows based since it allows me to control and modify my network and the computers connected to it with far more flexibility than OSX can deliver. My phone is a HTC Desire (soon to be Samsung Galaxy SIII) simply because I like Android better than iOS. It's not some defining factor though, I just like greens aliens more than white apples. If I had a chance to "relearn" my grandmother about computers I'd definitely given her an iPad since she would be the perfect user and I would be spared the randoms calls concerning "This pop-up did..." and "That program I don't recognize.." What I am trying to say is that, you might want to get the device best suited for your needs - it will make you more productive in the end.
I keep reading: 'Apple products are pretty good, but they are too expensive'. Why can't electronics be an luxury product? Why do they need to be so cheap? I don't see any threads comparing Dacia to Ferrari and claiming that they also get you from A to B, give better mileage and have a bigger boot and have room for 5 people! We don't mind wearing designers clothes and don't compare them to the cheap crap at the discount shops. I don't see everybody shopping for food at ALDI/LIDL. This list goes on and on.. fancy bikes, audio equipment, photography gear, .. to even nice restaurants. Apple designs its products well and they deliver decent products. They sell at a healthy profit margin and give local Apple Shops a fair chance at doing business, without competing with online shops with an unfair price advantage. Yes, they do sell an image, just like any other designer brand. It's a luxury item, just like any other. You can do without an Apple if you wish to do so... Most products these days are poorly designed and manufactured to be as cheap as possible. Next we don't leave even the tiniest bit of margin for the local reseller and buy at some webshop. I believe this is party of why our economy is the way it is.We don't give manufactures a chance for making decent products, we push them to produce cheap crap. Don't blame Apple for Hipsters. Yes: I love quality products and am an Apple, Canon, Audi, .. fanboy and wear designer clothes. I honestly believe this gives local resellers and manufacturers a fair chance at making an healthy profit margin and supports a healthy economy.
Lovah, in most of those examples, the more expensive product can either do far more, or does the same thing far better. With Apple it's not quite that simple, for some I've no doubt they do what they want better, in the end it comes to down to end use. For me, getting an apple product would just be a waste of time and money, since it wouldn't do what I wanted it to, and would have cost me more in the first place (most likely) It all depends on the user. Edit: And the clothing example, I have the same view about them as I do about apple, why on earth would you spend so much more what is at heart a near identical product )
