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Are you against the war in Iraq? Listen to this. NO FLAMES PLEASE.

Discussion in 'Serious' started by monolith, 19 Mar 2003.

  1. monolith

    monolith True Friend

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  2. |Jedi|

    |Jedi| What's a Dremel?

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    yes i'm
     
  3. Liquid K9

    Liquid K9 Human programmer.. heh

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    are people just getting lazy or is it some sort of contageous forum-disease where people only type a few letters to represent an entire conversation?? :confused:

    >back on topic<
    Oddly enough, that sound-file has changed my view somewhat. I still dont trust the excuse 'Sadam is a bad man' for the reason why the US is going after him... theres more to it, we're just not being told.
     
  4. Jaz

    Jaz Banned

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    yeah well i'd be eaving iraq too if USA was gonna be chucking a **** load of bombs on me
     
  5. Moreland

    Moreland banned

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    Im for the removal of a dictator

    edit* just listened to it, anti war people have their heads stuck so far up each other asses that they cant listen to people "they are protecting"

    Anti-war people only protest to make themselves feel better, they have no knowlege of the situation and clearly havent read up on the whole matter and when they are foudn to be wrong they just shout and cant accept that they are wrong.

    If your anti-war go join the Lib Dems you pansies.
     
    Last edited: 19 Mar 2003
  6. |Jedi|

    |Jedi| What's a Dremel?

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    wich one?
    Bush or saddam?
     
  7. Moreland

    Moreland banned

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    Saddam, anyone who thinks bush is a dictator needs to look up the definition of dictator
     
  8. SilverBullet

    SilverBullet Banned

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    Jedi, 1st off go invest in a dictionary,

    2nd, read up fully about the situation, you all blame it on Bush that we are going to war, when its France who have stopped there being a 2nd resolution, because said they will Vito anything.

    i also agree with moreland, all the anti war protestors who i have sene interviewed all seem to think its all about Oil etc, when its not at all!!!
     
  9. |Jedi|

    |Jedi| What's a Dremel?

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    i tryed to do a joke...

    :worried:

    i have another perspective from 20000 kilometers away... maybe you need to read anotehr country papers to have a general idea.
    What Bush (I will not blame all americans) wants can be done without war. But Bush family has something abaut Saddam.
     
  10. Moreland

    Moreland banned

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    1am thursday GMT action from then onwards
     
  11. SilverBullet

    SilverBullet Banned

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    Tonight US Eastern time, or Thursday sometime.

    Depending on the 48 hours Bush has given Sadam and his brothers to leave Iraq.
     
  12. SilverBullet

    SilverBullet Banned

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  13. Moreland

    Moreland banned

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    Iraq's victory

    There were street celebrations in Baghdad this week and deep apprehension in Israel as Bill Clinton blinked in his latest showdown with Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein.
    In one of the more surrealistic moments of Bill Clinton's presidency, the White House claimed victory after Mr. Clinton bought Saddam's promise to allow U.N. inspectors "unfettered access" to Iraqi weapons plants that are strongly believed to be producing chemical and even nuclear warheads and the ballistic missile system to deliver them -- to Israel.
    Saddam has made and broken identical promises several times before. And with the U.S. military mobilized and headed for the Persian Gulf, he made the same promise again. If he keeps his word, one observer noted, it will be the first time in his life that anyone knows about.
    In a scorching commentary in Tuesday's Wall Street Journal, retired Army officer and author Ralph Peters had this to say: "Surrounded by close advisers whose sheltered, privileged lives left them unprepared to deal with foreign leaders who will lie and cheat shamelessly to survive, who will sacrifice their own people to extend their grip on power, and who kill without concern, Mr. Clinton has taken the final step into the age of wonks vs. warlords, of the weak-willed and comfortable vs. the ruthless and determined. Guess who is going to win this bar fight?"
    Mr. Peters said the president's decision to halt the attack on Iraq -- in large part because Mr. Clinton said he wanted to avoid killing as many as 10,000 Iraqis -- "sent signals of cowardice ... not only to Saddam, but to warlords, demagogues and captains of terrorism everywhere. ... (The Clinton administration) worries about hurting its enemies." Mr. Peters further wrote that "at some opportune moment, one of our military leaders should summon the courage to explain to Mr. Clinton that deaths do tend to occur in military operations."
    Not only did the Clinton order to stand down broadcast to the world -- at best -- American irresolution, the whole military buildup and retreat cost U.S. taxpayers hundreds of millions, perhaps as much as $2 billion.
    With U.S. forces returning to their barracks, Saddam is again free to frustrate the efforts of weapons inspectors -- or halt their work altogether as he did a few months ago. It is virtually guaranteed that if the inspectors get anywhere close to Saddam's important weapons plants, he will summarily eject them.
    The Clinton administration is still nattering about organizing internal opposition to overthrow Iraq. But the United States already tried that, using CIA agents to train and organize Iraqi rebels -- and then pulling the CIA agents out when Saddam's own agents infiltrated the groups. When the CIA withdrew, Saddam tortured and executed as traitors hundreds of the CIA-trained Iraqis.
    So there sits Israel, waiting for Saddam to deploy a ballistic missile system and perhaps lob a few nuclear weapons at the tiny country. If anyone's left to push the button, Israel would surely retaliate with atomic weapons of its own. The administration's vacillations have only worsened the situation. We must either back down completely or be prepared to take the military action necessary to ensure that the U.N. inspectors can do their jobs.

    quoted from http://www.lvrj.com/lvrj_home/1998/Nov-19-Thu-1998/opinion/10074931.html
     
  14. Digitalblueshift

    Digitalblueshift What's a Dremel?

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    two things. If he is soo bad, how come the 22,675,617 (est 2000) people of iraq haven't turned around and kicked his ass yet? rebellions have happened before and happened in many countries, I would support a rebellion of Iraq's people, because then I know for sure that they (a majority of Iraqi's) actually and activley want him out.
    In response to the initial link. People have fled every country in this world in fear of their lives, so does that mean if one, two, or a hundered people flee a country for fear of their death that we should declare war on them?

    I believe war is never an answer. Conflict is unavoidable, but can result in a change for the better if resolved peacefully. Im not digging any country, Saddam is in power in Iraq - Saddam has the power to do with his country as he wishes, whether we like it or not, it is called soverignty. The US also has the right to do whatever they wish, they have soverignty too, I, just happy that My country has decided that it will not participate without a UN mandate.

    It is all well and good to create the UN and tout being a member, its a whole other thing entireley to follow their lead, especially when the going gets tough. The UN was created as a way for countries to have an arena in which to make joint decisions on matters of international importance. But the UN has no power to ENFORCE what they mandate, in Iraq, or anywhere, it is up to the individual countries to decide whther or not they want to follow the UN's mandate. (BTW what also has to go in the UN is the veto system, there are 5 permanent members of every committee, and they have the power to veto anything, russia, US, France, China and ???, everyone else has to viie for seats in things like the 'security comittee, in order to be an even playing field this has to be eliminated in the UN)
     
  15. djgizmo

    djgizmo 1337 pimp

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    i understand why saddam is being a stubborn dick about it, as do i understand why Bush is going to crush him.
    i really see only two solutions to this issue... either hussein forgets his whole world domination obsession and destroys his weapons of mass destrution, without lying about and covering up a considerable portion of them, or the us takes action and makes him do it.
    he made his choice.
    war's a bitch ain't it?
     
  16. Digitalblueshift

    Digitalblueshift What's a Dremel?

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    more concise:
    Im all for it as long as the US decides it will take its obsession and burys it along side his, and blows theirs up too. Peace cannot be achieved through superior firepower, only supression, real and true peace must be achieved through co-operation, mutual respect, and compromise, these are the pinciples of the UN, thumb your nose at them if you wish.


    original:
    Im in for that as long as the US decides it will crumble up theirs....
     
    Last edited: 19 Mar 2003
  17. maki43

    maki43 I can touch my toes 1,2,3

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  18. Cheryl

    Cheryl What's a Dremel?

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    :baby:
     
  19. eddie_dane

    eddie_dane Used to mod pc's now I mod houses

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    I heard on NPR the other day that about one out of every three family households have had someone they know arrested or murdered by the Iraqi govt. They keep a tight lid on their citizens. I agree with your point about at what point do we get involved. It obviously depends on the situation but my thoughts are that you mix in the fact that this guy has been flaunting the terms of allowing him control of his country for 12 years now and that makes a lot of people fall of the fence on the side of war. There are a lot of leaders out there that rule their countries with a stick but also don't have a proven history of lashing their whips outside their borders like Saddam.


    Monolith - Thanks for posting that link... really good.
     
  20. Digitalblueshift

    Digitalblueshift What's a Dremel?

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    Or have a proven ability to draw media coverage.

    but I wholeheartedly believe that war is never an answer, vengenace begets nothing but further vengeance.
     

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