Hi there, first post, and doing the usual boring thread of asking for advice in picking my new pc. Im Portuguese, and im ordering a new PC for gaming usage. Have the same computer almost 4 years now, and i believe its time for a change. Here are some aspects to consider: - I dont intend to overclock currently, but as time passes by, and the pc startes to lose its edge i will intend to overclock. - Already have a monitor, horrible one, 1920x1080 23". - Will order it to my liking, but will let the house set it up for me. Now based heavily on the magazine i like the most, here are my initial thoughts. - Case: Antec Twelve Hundred or Cooler Master ATCS 840 - Mobo: Gigabyte GA-X58A-UD3R or Asus P6X58D-E - CPU: Intel Core i7-920 or Core i7930 - Ram: 6GB (3x2GB) of 1,600MHz ram (still havent decided on wich) - Cooler: Akasa Nero S or Thermaltake Frio - GPU: XFX Radeon HD 5870 - PSU: Corsair HX850 or XFX Black Edition P1-750B-NLG9 - Hard Disk: 1TB Samsung SpinPoint F3 I still dont know if i can manage all this parts here in the stores, and tomorrow ill be checking this out and report back. But i would like an advise on this, taking into consideration everything i said, any help is apreciated guys. Also i already got an Creative SoundBlaster X-Fi, would it be necessary for me to get a newer sound card like the advised Asus Xonar DX? Another newbie question is about Windows 7 Home Premium (still on XP), since i dont know anything about the OEM version, but the question is, since i dont upgrade that often would the cheaper OEM version be damaging if i would intend to upgrade the graphics in the future, or to an ssd, or format my pc often? Newbie question as the others i know. So again any help woul be apreciated, will continue tomorrow when i know more about the availability of the parts here in Portugal. Many thx in advance guys. And may bit tech continue its good work.
If you are ever interested in changing your monitor, check my little comparison table: It presents highly recommended and well reviews monitors. BE SURE TO READ REVIEWS FIRST! Don't base on yourself on numbers only. Doesn't mean that the numbers are higher that it's necessarily better. You must understand each option carefully. HTML: http://www.helpweaver.com/monitor/monitor comparison.htm Excel: http://www.helpweaver.com/monitor/monitor comparison.xlsx To have a better understanding on LCD technology: http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/articles/content/panel_technologies_content.htm If you wonder, I have the Dell U2410 and I love it. Before I start: Notes: - I can't comments on the HDD as I never bought or experience or know anyone with such HDD long term usage, other than on this forum. - I never experience XFX service and quality of their product, so i can't comment on that My comments: - I am all for quiet computers. For me, a computer should not be a plane reactor. I must be able to enjoy my system and concentrate on my work and (in my case) studies, and can leave my computer turn ON over night if needed without disturbing me. f course, I don't have the funds, for water cooling so I try my best with air cool, and it's possible. - I know that more fans does not equal necessary better cooling. It's all about air flow engineering. I would recommend the Antec P183 case, because of it's HDD vibration absorbing system (rubber things on special shape screws), sound damping panels, and case pads which absorb vibration nicely, all by keeping great air cooling with multiple fans which directly nicely the air flow. The case front has complete air filter keeping large dust particle out of your system, ensuring a system that stay quiet (dust block air flow, is an isolator, and break fan motors... less dust the better). I would go with the Gigabyte motherboard, it sounds the most interesting and seams to come with great accessories, all by being a great overclocker. Moreover, Gigabyte board are much better build quality. For heat-sink replacement, I would cash out on a Noctua NH-U12P SE2, expansive, yes, but excellent reviews. Great cooling, optional second fan (which COMES WITH IT... so if you don't need it, you can use it on your case), very quiet too. Check out reviews! I have the Corsair HX620W, and I love mine. It's been about 2 years I have it, still as quiet and solid as the first day I got it (my computer runs 24/7, because my ASUS motherboard is piece of crap, and on my second board RMA with them). Note: The day I build my brother system with a Gigabyte motherboard (my first.. I ALWAYS had ASUS motherboard for as long as I remember), I fell in love with it. Plug and it works, literally. And every feature works well out of the box, no need to catch for updates to get something to work properly, due to miss testing, solid and heavy board (probably because of the 80 000 Hr capacitors, 2Oz copper, and the 12 phase power. Oh and the manuals are thick and complete. ASUS Xonar is a better sound card in term of sound quality, but the difference between this and the X-Fi is not large. Your computer speakers might limit your Xonar from you getting great sound. The real upside of the Xonar are the drivers. If you are limited with cash and find your X-Fi fine, then you can stay with it. However, X-Fi is a picky card... it doesn't like many computer setups... so be prepared to change PCI slots (a possible fix), or replace it. If I was you I would keep that in mind, and be prepared to change it if it causes any problems. - The Windows OEM license ties itself to your motherboard. If you replace the motherboard with a different one (different model or brand), you will need to purchase a new license. Changing other components will not cause a problem. If you change too many component, you may be prompted for re-activation, but it's a click of a mouse on a dialog box, and your set to continue using your system (same for Retail and Upgrade). Also the OEM license comes only in 32 or 64-bit not both. - If you have a previous legit Windows (XP or Vista) and not in use, you can get the upgrade version of Windows 7. You can perform a clean install with it. I did that for both my laptop and desktop. You don't need to be IN Windows to perform either a clean install or upgrade. You can boot from the disk and perform it from there. A new feature to the Upgrade license is that you are able to to perform a clean install from a blank HDD - just follow Method #2 her (100% legal): http://www.winsupersite.com/win7/clean_install_upgrade_media.asp (this is what i did for both systems, and they work great, even at re-install). Note: Microsoft calls "Clean install" a "Custom install", as you can adjust your disk partition and select a different partition to install. Performing an upgrade form XP to 7 (32 or 64-bit) is not possible. If you do, Windows will simply perform a clean install, and move all XP files in a folder called "Windows.OLD" for your to delete if you don't need anything from there. Your files won't be transferred. XP 32-bit or Vista 32-bit upgrade to Windows 7 64-bit is not possible, Windows will do a clean install for you, following the same behavior as above (move your old Windows in a folder called Windows.OLD for you to delete, when you don't need anything from there). Retail and Upgrade license follow essentially the same license. You can transfer between systems. Do it too much in a short period of time, you will be prompted to to activate over the phone (online activation will fail). Calling Microsoft Activation is easy and fast. The 1-800 number will be written on the Activation dialog box, and they will ask you a 1 or 2 simple question: - Why are you re-installing Windows? (they won't argue on anything - I say upgrade or Virus back when I was using XP it worked fine). - and, DO you have that same license installed on another computer? If you say yes, they will tell you that you can't do this, and help you in finding the right Windows edition that fits your needs and budget and you can purchase it over the phone. If you say No, they will give you an override code to by-pass the activation. If you lie: activation will fail a few days after the the other computer using the same license is in use, and the same process will repeat. What ever license you get: You must get the 64-bit version. Not only it will be faster (as you get to use your 64-bit CPU, and not lock it down to 32-bit like your are probably doing now in your current system - unless you have a P4), but you can run 64-bit programs, and games as they come out. Already they are quiet a bit of software in 64-bit flavor. From Windows Security Essential (best free anti-virus and anti-spyware software), Windows Live Essential software, Photoshop and other several other Adobe software (not Flash player, yet), Java, video codecs (I highly recommend Shark007 codec pack. No conflicts, does not override Microsoft Windows 7 excellent built-in codecs, Windows Media Player 12 (very good player, BTW, (so much better than version 11), you have full thumbnail support, and allows you by a press of a button, change all shortcuts to the 64-bit version of Windows Media Player 12, and at the press of another button change the file association from WMP 12 32-bit to the 64-bit, to enjoy great video performance. Of course a great new computer is never complete without a good keyboard and mouse. My recommendation is (this is what I have) - Logitech Performance MX - Logitech Illuminated keyboard - and if needed: Logitech QuickCam Pro 9000 (might have a different name in your region, but the one with the "9000" in the name) For a perfect match (in my opinion) with your setup. This is what I have. But it is to be noted that I use my laptop for work (programming) and gaming, so I need something that is nice for both. I am no fan of macro's (I feel like I cheat), and old style keys. It goes very well well with my Logitech Z4, router and my monitor, if you want a nice ensemble. I hope this helps.
Without more information about what you want to do with your machine I just made this - I chose the R2 because as Goodbytes mentioned above silence is good and the P183 is a good case and the R2 is pretty much the same thing but cheaper BTs review of the i7-930 said that if you had a 920 there was no need to upgrade but this being an up to date build I thought it would be better to use the more current model I included and SSD big enough for a boot drive and other quick load files (maybe Microsoft word... photoshop ...) As far as I know (although my knowledge of soundcards is limited) the Creative Xi-Fi is a long-time recommended card and I personally don't think soundcards make that much of a difference so I'd stick with your current one The F3 is the main storage drive, the HX850 is a solid PSU and the 5870 is cool, quiet and powerful
850W is mega overkill 550-650W will power that rig when overclocked so save the cash. if your going for high overclocks i.e. 4Ghz + get a 930 if your going below 4Ghz go with a much cheaper 920 since that will do 4GHz. clock for clock the 920 and 930 are the same. personally dont think SSD is worth it yet
By the way, Scan has the Corsair HX 850W PSU on super saver sale until 1pm tomorrow - costs just £123.36
First of all, many thx for the data and info provided. Wasnt here sooner because i was checking out the stores nearby, in order to find a reliable Vendor. My pcs in the past have been bought from retailers too far away from me, althought they are the most reliable they present the dificulty of moving to them in case of need. Now to adress the info provided. Many thx for the detail in your post Goodbytes. Thx for the data on the monitor, but it was an emergency buy, and now im stuck with it. Too soon to spend more money on it. Will save the data nontheless, noone knows what the future brings. As for the case, well i dont need quiet, for my over night needs, i have a capable EEPC (LOL) wich i use only for "Stuff" to leave it on during the night. When im on my desktop i use only headphones, that fully cover my ears to block all foreign sound, or at least most of it. So the noise isnt a priority for me. Unfortunaly Moyo2k, the Fractal R2 isnt sell here in portugal so far. But seems a real cool case. Now i think Portugal should be quite warmer than you brits have there wich can pose a problem? Also you guys havent talked bad about the twelve hundred? Or is it that loud? For the mobo, bittech recently posted So im interested to know if i should avoid it and go for the asus, or the problems wont bother my use? (also been an asus user for the last 3 pcs i had, never had a problem with them). For the heatsink, well from the advised coolers, here in portugal theres only available the Thermaltake Frio and the Noctua Goodbytes mentioned. No Gelid, Nero S or Titan Fenrir. (this is near me, because some of the options can be obtained farther away) Now the PSU is an interesting matter, CPC for their list advise an HX850, Bit Tech advises an XFX 750, Goodbytes mentions HX620, althought i mostly saw the HX650 version i believe? Adam Bagpuss mentions 850 is overload for the system? As for the SoundCard ill follow the advise provided, ill stick with my X-Fi for now, and only trade for the Xonar if it gives problems. 64Bits wont be a problem for it will they? Again deep thx Goodbytes for the info on the OS, will stick to an OEM version, since i dont plan many upgrades. Dam you should write for the magazine m8! As for periphials, i currently have what i need, my G9 being still very capable, althought worned out, and my basic keyboard will do fine for now (unless i get loads of cash to spare. The 920 or the 930, thx for the reply Moyo2k and Adam, since im not planning to OC right now, and probably when i OC it will be to a figure around 3.6, ill go for an 920 if its available? Also thx for the idea Moyo, but its still too soon for an SSD for me, and way too expensive i believe, so ill stick to a normal HD for now. Now then back to business, spend the afternoon looking for the best shop and still havent made up my mind, but it shure cut off some initial thoughts, so now i stand at this: CASE: Antec Twelve Hundred / Antec P183 / Cooler Master ATCS 840 ??? Any further thoughts on this? The ATCS seems expensive here? MOBO: Gigabyte GA-X58A-UD3R or Asus P6X58D-E Will the Gygabyte have the mentioned problems by Bit Tech? CPU: Intel Core i7-920 or Core i7-930 Will go for the 920 if available in shop, if not then the 930. RAM: 6GB (3x2GB) of 1,600MHz ram Need further help on this, on the CPC they recomend the Corsair XMS3 PC3-12800 but since memory is my weakest point, ive found many finding the description, but changing this like the CL9, CL8, CL7 etc? Any way to sort this out? And also can somebody provide me with more options on this one, incase the shop doesnt have it? COOLER: Thermaltake Frio / Noctua NH-U12P SE2 Will see the Noctua Reviews, but the Frio seems to be well advised on Bit Tech? GPU: XFX Radeon HD 5870 Any more recomendations on this one? Incase i dont find a XFX? Maybe Saphire? And also would a 2Gg version be worth it? PSU: Corsair HX850 / Corsair HX650 / XFX Black Edition P1-750B-NLG9 / Enermax Modu 87+ EMG700AWT / Antec TruePower New TP-650 Quite indecided on this one, maybe the HX850 is overkill? But the XFX is hard to find... Maybe the enermax or the Antec are any worth??? Or you guys have another one to recomend? HD: 1TB Samsung SpinPoint F3 No doubts on this one i believe? Well back to seing what the shops have on stock. Will be also sending out first mails to see what prices are around, any ideas about anything i should mention in the mails? I really apreciate the help guys, and sorry for the long post and bad english. If im forgetting anything please remind me? Any ideas are apreciated. On a last question, is it a terrible mistake to not OC the 920 for now? Wont it sufice for the current gen games? Again thx
Since every post I make as to be authorized (wich i fully understand) I'll be posting again with updates. Again sorry for any incovenience in bothering you guys with this. Been looking up the stores and have to make some choices. So to recap. - Im building a new pc.~ - Trying for a budget bellow 1300£ - PC Mainly for playing games. - Wont overclock just yet, but have such an intention in the future. - Will reuse my Creative X-Fi in the new PC, so no need for new Sound Card. - Need you guys opinions in the choices, possible negatives and incoerences. Because ill be choosing from 4 stores (depends on the awnser to my mail, stock availability and so on, what a retarded country), i ask for your humble opinion. Case: Antec Twelve Hundred The P83 is still in consideration, but i have some doubts about its cooling capabilty? Maybe adding more vents to it? Like the price and the quietness, even the size, what really worries me, is overclocking in the future? CPU: Intel i7-930 Since most stores have the 920 out of stock, will consider it if in the final decision of the store, they have it? Cooler: Thermaltake Frio / Noctua NH-U12P SE1366 (depends on store) Frio is actually the word "cold" in portuguese. For Goodbytes, i can only get the Noctua SE1 and not the SE2, seems it wont matter since its only a question of mounts?? Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-X58A-UD3R Decided on the gigabyte since they are cheaper, question still is about the problems Bit-Tech mentioned? Since some stores now have the Rev2 of the board???? PSU: Corsair HX-650 Modular Will this 650W be enought to power the PC and possibly overclock in the future???? Memory: Corsair PC3-12800 6GB XMS3 XMP CL9 (3x2GB) DDR3 Its a short diference of cash (14£) for the CL8 version, would it be worth it?? Also in 1 suplier was forced to picked another, GSKILL PC3-12800 RIPJAWS CL8 1600MHZ TC 6GB, will it ruin my build incase its the one i pick? Graphics Card: XFX Radeon HD5870 DisplayPort Aliens vs Predators 1GB DDR5 PCI-E Seems to be one of the cheaper versions out there, or you guys advice other 5870?? Hard Disk: Samsung Spinpoint F3 3.5" 1TB 7200RPM 32MB SATA Think its the clear choice here? OS: Windows 7 Home Premium 64bits OEM And any low cost Sata RW drive ??? Or should i be picky on this one too? Again guys, sorry to be bothering, but i would really apreciate peoples opinions, likes and dislikes. Thx for the attention provided, and for the answers so far given!
Really? Ok let me provide you my system as an example. I have the Antec SOLO. I have modded the case to support my GTX 260 graphic card (the case is not designed for large fans). My CPU is dual-core 64-bit 110W and overclocked right now (from 2.2Ghz to 2.6GHz). I have ONLY 2 case fan, the back 120mm fan, and 1x 92mm fan. All my fans are at very low speeds. My computer is ultra quiet when idle (BTW, my CPU doesn't downclock to reduce heat), and under heavy load, my system shows no sign of stress. My computer full specs is on my signature. My CPU and GPU heats more than yours, and I only have 2 fans. Here are my system temps: This is pretty good considering that the idle temperature of my CPU (not overclock with AMD heatsink), is 45C (from reviews). The rest the temps have not increase. It's been 5 years I use my system, and no problem (on 24/7). Here is my case: This is to show you, that you don't need 2000 fans in your case, and that in reality it's all about how good your case is to move air, and how cable management. If you wonder for my HDD (the bottom one), it's put on reverse, the wires go on the side of the HDD and to the back side of the picture (behind the motherboard tray). 930 is an excellent choice. For me, in Canada, the 920 is more expensive than the 930, and both overclock equally (based on reviews I read). SE2 is a bit easier to install, apparently, and support new CPU sockets. Just make sure that the Noctua SE1 supports your CPU socket. Problems? Can you specify? I know that I read about a wine issue with some PSU's. But some people told me that they don't have the problem with the Corsair HX850 PSU (should be the same as the HX650). So it SHOULD be fine. It's always best to get the latest revision. In any case, you should be able to return it. I am sure it sucks to do this, but the problem still hold true for ASUS motherboard, and MSI. The better news, is that Gigabyte is the only one that released several BIOS update in trying to solve the issue, and can be fixed by disabling C1E or specifying your CPU to 1.2V (default voltage) - this will disable the power management of the CPU, but some people claim that the one from Windows 7 does work, and does reduce CPU power when idle (but I had no real confirmation on this). While the others, have no fix, other than changing with a different motherboard model, or replacing the power supply. As long as you stay with 1 GPU with 1 GPU per core, you should be fine. I would not worry about it. I would look for 1.5V memory. 1.65V is directly on Intel max voltage specs for the X58 chipset, I would not recommend touching this limit, because I don't assume if the user will keep for a long time or only 3 years. Also it provide syou no room for overclocking your memory. G.SKILL is a great brand, and should be considered. They also have the most 1.5V memory, all by being affordable. This is fine, but make sure that the graphic card comes with a Display Port to DVI adapter, or that your monitor has Display Port port. In Canada, the SATA drivers are cheaper than IDE. In my opinion any optical drive will do. They are 20-25$ here, if it breaks, I'll just a new one, from a different brand. Performance is all pretty much the same, unless you really use a lot of DVD/CD's it should be no importance. It's not the 1-2 sec less in installing your games via disk that will effect you. You NEVER bother us. Please ask anything you want. Well I think I presented all my point on everything in my case.. if not, please ask what you need clarification on. Thank you very much! This community wants you to be very happy without your new computer, and I believe, we all try our best to help everyone.
Is this really a big issue? If you don't intend to overclock the RAM, is 1.65V OK for X58 or do you think it still could reduce lifespan?
1.65V is fine. You won't reduce your lifespan. It's only the rule of thumb given the fact the DDR3 voltage must remain within about 0.5V of the CPU (or VTT?) core voltage. You *can* get 1.35V memory now if you want to turn it down a notch, although it's harder to find and I don't think you can get 6GB kits of it.
As always many thx for the replys. Especially you Goodbytes, another well writen response that covers most of my doubts. Will look into the P83 a bit better. Also i hope it was a typo when you wrote this: Graphics card as DVI, HDMI and DisplayPort. So im fine with that one. Will also consider the GSkill, but 1600 memory is short around this parts at the moment, will dig deaper thought. Anyways, one of the shops sugested a Corsair Hydro H50 for the CPU instead of the Noctua or Thermal Frio. What you guys think about this?
ive got one and its lovely but expenisive and its no quieter because you have to cool the radiator. however you must mount it to draw air in from the rear or you will be using warm case air and that gimps it a bit. id say it cools better than the noctua or thermal frio though
Like I mentioned in an above post if your looking at the P183 then I'd recommend also looking at the R2, for build quality I guess you can't match the Antec but the R2 is quite a lot cheaper and it's probably quieter too and despite what numerous people keep saying about it's airflow sticking in a few more near silent fans is a proved method of improving that aspect As for the PSU, CPC did a revealing review on PSUs and it was amazing how many of the branded ones weren't 100% stable, a PSU only draws what it needs and as the higher rated ones tend to be more efficient AND PSUs run better at less than 100% power draw then I don't see why not to invest in something more expensive As an added note I really think you could afford an SSD Boot drive on a budget like that EDIT: Just re-read and realised you're in Portugal making my advice near obsolete :/
Thx for the input guys! Will still need to get a feedback on the availability of some parts. Final few questions. - Does the Hydro H50 require any mantainance? Also the reviews mention the NO warning incase of a failing pump. Still quite turned to the Thermaltake Frio. - Will probably go with Corsair HX750W since some of you mention the Headrom, any cons agaisnt this model in particular? - For the GPU, was inclined for the normal 5870, but i can squeaze for a Saphire Vapor-X 5870 OC 1GB. Not sure its worth the extra 23£ (roundish)? Does come overclocked, but most people say that in GPUs its not worth it. The aspect i like is the Vapor-X tech? - For the memorys (mecblade) im not conviced i should pay another 32£ for them? Would prefer not, but i can try and get some Pack 3x 2048Mb DDR3 GSkill PC3-12800 (1600) CL8 RipJaws Tri-Channel wich will cost me slight less than the Corsair XMS3 CL9 PC3-12800 3x2048Mb, what you guys think of those? Again guys, im deeply gratefull for the opinions and huge help, should get this baby ordered today or tomorrow, and ready middle next week.
of course, everything i recommend is purely if youre willing to stretch your budget a bit, and if you rather not, then i can not do anything to stop you. G-Skill like other people have said, is a great memory manufacturer and if you want a alternative to the Dominators, then Ripjaws is it and considering that they are the same specs, why not go for it? As a child (gulp, 12 years old ), i have not done watercooling before, and so i cant really know the answer to your H-50 question, but a note i found is that a lot of people would recommend a custom watercooling block to a all round H-50 (some even say its not much better than air overclocking) EDIT:ermmmm maybe i got confused with another waterblock :S. There really is no need to go for the Vapor X in my opinion, as the extra pounds youare going to use will not really be much beneficial than the XFX one. I would rather save that money and use it to get a slightly more expensive ( *cough* memory *cough* ) component. That corsair PSU looks good to me, corsair do have a slight rep of doing good quality PSUs. (at least i think so ) Anyway, hope your build goes well! Mecblade
I don't have any experience with one but I have read a lot about them (I quite fancy one myself, maybe for my next build!), and from what I have seen they do not require any maintance...
