As the strike goes on....

Discussion in 'Serious' started by CrOaKeR, 25 Nov 2002.

  1. Kevo

    Kevo 426F6C6C6F636B7300

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    And they try and class that as very stressfull... lol :lol:
     
  2. RTT

    RTT #parp

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    I saw an interview with a fireman, he was saying that "£21k per annum is hard to pay the bills with". Fair enough I though. Then he said "and it's even harder to support my FOUR kids".

    Why have 4 kids then you daft sod? :rolleyes:
     
  3. Jaz

    Jaz Banned

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    ahhhh so RTT is in favour of the 1 kid per couple state then
     
  4. eddie_dane

    eddie_dane Used to mod pc's now I mod houses

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    I think it is fairly universal that this formula works:

    #of children < or = what you can afford
     
  5. bust0aster

    bust0aster What's a Dremel?

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    ill have to agree with you on that one eddie. theres just to many people in this world who make x per year and go ahead and have y kids that cost more per year than x, and then complain to us about not having enough money to support them. its one thing if you supported them in the past then lost your job and couldn't get one that made the amount you needs but having more kids than you can afford and knowing it is a pretty bad decision.
     
  6. bradford010

    bradford010 Bradon Frohman

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    How do you know his wife's second pregnancy wasn't triplets? :eeek: What if he adopted?

    And we think it's cushy job then, being a firemen? Being on call 96hrs straight at a time, running into burning buildings to save people who apparently think they should have a part time job to worry about the next day.
     
  7. Loz

    Loz Blah Blah

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    I don't agree with the strike for a number of reasons:
    1) Firemen chose to put the publics lives at risk, rather than wait a few months for the Bain Review.
    2) They are allowed to sleep during nightshifts (half of their hours) apparently.
    3) With 4 days off they all have second jobs anyway.

    Most importantly, they arent willing to do anything for it. When confronted with a 16% (VERY acceptable imho) pay rise they reject it because of the modernisation attached.

    Without modernisation a hefty pay rise is not economically viable, but the firemen are not willing to give up their current working practices for anything. Why? Could it be that they arent actually that bad off?

    As dangerous as work as a fireman is, thanks to modern equipment the risks are significantly lower than a few other jobs I can think of, as has already been mentioned.

    Blair suggested increasing efficiency by cutting down the number of workers required. He stated that there were a large number of expected retirements etc in the next few years, so no redundancies were necessary.
    The firemen then began to talk nonsense about how the government were announcing job cuts!

    I think the firemen may have shot themselves in the foot...
     
  8. yodasarmpit

    yodasarmpit Modder

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    How I see it

    1. The Firemen knew the pay before accepting the job, to then demand a 40% increase is ridiculous.

    2. If a 40% increase is given, then a precedent is set for all public sector jobs (teachers/police etc) - unsustainable

    3. Who gives a toss about a picket line - if lives are at risk the Army should be able to take and use the equipment, in fact the government should demand that it be made available.

    4. The Fire service were offered a damned good increase which they didn’t accept, they are holding the country to ransom which is completely unacceptable.

    I believe everyone should be paid a reasonable wage for the job they do, but when you sign a contract you are fully aware of the pay structure/terms and conditions etc.
    An annual pay increase in line with inflation (or a little above) is more appropriate.


    Like RTT said nobody made him have 4 kids, that was a personal choice.




    [edit] ps I have every respect for the work these men and women carry out, again their choice.
     
  9. bradford010

    bradford010 Bradon Frohman

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    They didn't all just get up one day and decide to walk out. This has been on the cards for a long time, what were they supposed to when backed into a corner? In addition, they quite happily break their own picket lines when they believe lives are at risk.

    Of course they are. Nobody could be expected to work 96hrs straight, it's inhuman and would rapidly result in insanity. But just because they are allowed, doesn't mean they get a healthy nights sleep each night. Anyone who's ever had to organise their life around an unusual sleep pattern will get what I'm taking about.

    Maybe if they got more money, the few that do wouldn't feel the need.

    And finally it comes down to the cold hard facts. The FBU were willing to accept a deal of 16% and that deal was kyboshed because Prescott was too lazy to get his fat ass out of bed!
    The government is spoiling for a fight because at the end of the day they want to reduce costs by cutting staff.
     
  10. Hindaine

    Hindaine What's a Dremel?

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    Heres the kicker: There are human lives at stake

    Army numbers > Firefighers numbers. The army could feasably walk thru the picket line and take the needed materials, and as far as in the US is concerned, fire trucks ect ect are government property (albeit at city level).
     
  11. bradford010

    bradford010 Bradon Frohman

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    But that's it, isn't it. The firefighters have said if someone wants to cross the picket lines, they wont stop them.
    But nobody is willing to do it.
    Despite more and more people buying into the government's spin they still have a lot of support from the public.
     
  12. Trekari

    Trekari What's a Dremel?

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    I was following this, until the posts about how the military and police will not cross picket lines.

    Maybe y'all should set the picketing firefighters on fire, then tell them, "Sorry we can't put you out, all our firemen are on strike."

    Firefighters live day in, day out with extreme danger. Soldiers have periods of danger, but it isn't every day because war isn't 24/7. But for the firefighters to go on strike, over money, when innocent people could die, or have their lives and memories destroyed makes me sick.

    -Jason
     
  13. Will

    Will Beware the judderman...

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    IIRC that deal was scuppered because the FBU had made no or extremely vague promises to allow modernisation of the working practices, such as the union imposed overtime ban, that it would be unreasonable for the deal to go through as it would be a pay rise without any agreement to reform the outdated working practices of the fire service.

    The independent enquiry of the fire services pay recommended a raise of 11% with reforms, yet the FBU refused to acknowledge the reports findings as significant...funny that when they want more money.

    EDIT: To add to this, fireman in many other countries are paid less yet are also better trained, in many countries all of them able to act as paramedics. Take a look at Gemanys pay for the firefighters :eeek:

    Ireland - £26,518
    Denmark - £24,171
    Norway - £22,946
    UK - £21,531
    Belgium - £17,821
    Germany - £16,401

    So its not like our firemen are absolute paupers compared with some European countries.
     
  14. bradford010

    bradford010 Bradon Frohman

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    There is still fire cover provided by the military and the firefighters go back to work on jobs when the public is in danger.
     
  15. bradford010

    bradford010 Bradon Frohman

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    Will, the deal was done, but the next industrial action was due to start 3 hrs later.
    The reason the action went ahead is because the deputy PM's office refused to look at the thing before 9:00 knowing full well if they didn't the strike was on.
    If that's not inviting the blame to be placed on their shoulders, I don't know what is.

    And as for citing the pay and conditions in other countries. That is all well and good, but at the end of the day, this is the UK and we can't make decisions based on how other countries keep house.

    I think if recent actions by teachers and paramedics is anything to go by, it's all too clear the government are quite happy to crap all over public servants if it makes them look good by cutting costs. But they still see fit to give themselves a pay rise? WTF?
     
  16. Will

    Will Beware the judderman...

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    Not gonna argue with the politicians given themselves a pay rise mate, greedy gits, but the economic effect of giving all the MPs a 40% rise is less than a 40% to the firemen (thank gord theres more fireman than politicians :D) is undoubtably less. And yes ;) I know we don't make our decisions in the UK based around other countries, but it is an interesting comparison IMHO.

    As for whether the government being entirely at fault, well the Guardian (which I don't normally read) wrote that there were 3 possible reasons:

    So I guess it depends on who you want to believe as to who's fault it was that the deal was scuppered the other day, lazy bar steward Prescott, the unions stage managing it so it looks like the governments fault, or the employers for negotiating a deal that was unreasonable and had the FBU making no promises to modernise (which I have highlighted in bold there, reading other papers this is what I was led to believe but I/they could be wrong) . I would imagine we'll never really know everything that went on...

    :)
     
  17. RTT

    RTT #parp

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    About 90% of people I've talked to about this have lost virtually all respect for the firemen. They're really not doing themselves any favours.

    Next strike due to start wednesday is it?
     
  18. Jaz

    Jaz Banned

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    bring it on
     
  19. bradford010

    bradford010 Bradon Frohman

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    And there, ladies and gentlemen is the result of a good bit of spin. ;)
     
  20. Loz

    Loz Blah Blah

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    I could say the same about you buying into the Firefighters story :D

    Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Just because it differs from yours, that doesnt mean they were conned.
     

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