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Development asp.net vs. php

Discussion in 'Software' started by OneSeventeen, 16 Apr 2004.

  1. OneSeventeen

    OneSeventeen Oooh Shiny!

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    We are doing everything in PHP at work right now, and there is a .net fanatic trying to get us to switch to asp.
    Is there any real reason to switch?

    Please just post all the +'s and -'s you can think of for using .net especially pertaining to the web and asp. (and using it with php if you can offer a good description of how to use php's .net wrappers or whatever it is they do)
     
  2. TheAnimus

    TheAnimus Banned

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    .NET means you don't have to use ASP on the server, its a compiled binary that is just JIT decoded for execution, meaning much faster pages compaired to PHP.

    PHP is a nice langauge, its cheaper, and for some platforms is much more suited. PHP can be easily extended in compiled C which runs faster than the .NET native language, thou on unix its still tends to be slower than on windows when doing complex OS related API stuff.

    If your not on a heavy site thats looking towards needing to upgrade your server hardware, ignore this post, just use which ever language u like.
     
  3. MechWarrior

    MechWarrior What's a Dremel?

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    I hate ASP with a passion. PHP all the way. ASP = The Demon Within. I hate how the language works. PHP is simple, fast, and effective, plus free. No reason to spend any money with PHP. Mysql and PHP are very effective.
     
  4. TheAnimus

    TheAnimus Banned

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    the ASP language is realy realy ghastly.

    But with .NET it dosent have to be ASP.NET you right it in.
    It could be C# *i hate that one more*
    or J# *ergh, a more clunky java*
    or VB *sniggers*
     
  5. MechWarrior

    MechWarrior What's a Dremel?

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    C# In web...I think thats overdoing it
    J# HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH! Try using that with a database!
    VB What developers even use that... its childs play.
     
  6. TheAnimus

    TheAnimus Banned

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    yeh take the piss outa .net but the end result runs faster than even zend optimised PHP.

    Some also say its less effort than making a PHP module n linking that in.
     
  7. Joel

    Joel What's a Dremel?

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    i'd say php coz i am biast, but it is far batter then asp, and php5 should address most of the speed issues, and its free, and plus, its much nicer to write in, and you know the language... why change?
     
  8. Bogomip

    Bogomip ... Yo Momma

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    i agree...

    PHP has a much nicer syntax, on the grand scale of things, due to its opensource nature, it should be able to do more things, because there are people who make stuff for it, and improve it. Theres also problalby many more web servers you cna use it on cause its far cheaper (if i remember correctly, ASP.net is microsoft right ?). Basically this is a windows/linux fight, where ASP is windows and PHP is linux. Only this time there is no reason to goto windows because it looks and feelds nice. ASP Feels alot worse than PHP, PHP looks nice! and IS. Id recommend you tell your little friend to shut the hell up, and turn him to PHP :):)
     
  9. webchimp

    webchimp What's a Dremel?

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    I think the PHP v ASP.net debate is much like the Mac v PC debate, they each have their benefits and ardent supporters and it's often difficult to get a considered, impartial and meaningful viewpoint.

    For example:
    So, I'm not even going to throw my own hat in the ring, instead here are some links to articles that do a bit more than rant and rave about one or the other. Funny how people allways seem to favour whatever they know, rather than actually pointing out any pros and cons. :D

    Links:
    http://www.sitepoint.com/article/v-php-top-6-reasons-use-net?SID=62fce530c20535da64e5bd8cbdf34446

    http://www.sitepoint.com/article/php-top-10-net-myths-exposed?SID=b3ed220ae64ab379dd386711cd502db4

    http://otn.oracle.com/pub/articles/hull_asp.html

    http://msdn.microsoft.com/asp.net/using/migrating/
     
  10. RTT

    RTT #parp

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    I'd go with PHP simply because the syntax/structure of ASP/ASP.net stinks. :)
     
  11. TheAnimus

    TheAnimus Banned

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    Not realy, even the most MAC happy engineers admit that mac couldn't design a pissup in brewery (thou the new pissup MW would have a very nice white + blue case, however no boos!).

    As much as i hate the ASP.NET language, i admit if i was making a big site, or working for someone (i won't say who i don't approve of their activities now, hence y i left). But the server was getting around 1.5million hits a day, on a single server, and we were database searching on every hit, for track n trace to customize the results. That server was a beast, and our own custom compiled code to the generation as quickly as possible. It was a apache library the end, but if .NET was around then, we would of definatly used that. The benefits are hudge.
     
  12. OneSeventeen

    OneSeventeen Oooh Shiny!

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    Cool, we're starting to get a little less biased!

    I was actually asking because I'm almost as fanatical about PHP as I am about CSS, but that's only because I know PHP, and haven't messed around with asp much.
    I tried maintaining an asp.net website where I work, but the code wasn't too intuitive, and I didn't have the time to really look into it. I'm thinking of getting a book on ASP.NET/ASP anyway, so I can at least add it to my skills list. (that'd make 2! :D)

    But it appears I'm not alone in prefering PHP, so I'm not as worried about not knowing it yet.

    I didn't realize it was as much like the PCvMAC debate though. Kind of interesting.
    BTW, my computer is better than any other computer, and it doesn't matter if it is pc or mac... it is better because it is mine, and that beats out all other benchmarks people may come up with! :p
     
  13. TheAnimus

    TheAnimus Banned

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    indeed i get pissed of with so many people telling me which i should use, as an ASM mainly programmer (most of the software i write now, is anti-crack stuff, which is well a losing battle, so very depressing). The thing people miss, is its about whats best for you, saying VB sucks, just isn't helpful, and frankly is what you would expect on the IMDB forum!
    Truth is everything has its place (heck, even macs!) and more often than not people are just critisaing either,
    A. Something they haven't learn't therefore don't want to feal insupiour, and as such say its rubbish
    B. Something they used a when they where a skript kido, and feal embarrased about it, and as such want it to go away.

    C/++ vrs VB, PHP vrs .NET (can't just call it ASP now), x86 vrs macintosh.
    Each has their place, and is often miss-used, hey even Hitler did *some* good things (our Winston was a kurd gasser).
     
  14. Hepath

    Hepath Minimodder

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    Oooh just picked this thread up.... couldn't resist a reply ;)

    Sounds like so many situations I've been in before - you're ticking away nicely and some guiy comes up to you and says "...shoulda done it this way using MRY technology"

    I always ask them: "How long to change and test the existing codebase and train everyone up..couple of hours?"

    Normally shuts them up!

    I can only add to the exisitng comments; Its all pragmatics- If it works to the user's satisfaction and developers can understand it so as they can maintain it: No problem!

    Just cos I am an MCAD in .NET doesn't mean I wax lyrical about it or tell everyone that they should convert - for a start its not free!!

    Stu
     
  15. cjmUK

    cjmUK Old git.

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    Background: I'm from a VB/ASP/SQL Server background. However, I'm (slowly) learning .NET and PHP/MySQL...

    First of all (as has been subtly pointed out) ASP != ASP.NET.

    In my book, ASP is much easier to use than PHP. Of course, this is just a question of [my] familiarity. In most respects, they are very comparable.

    ASP.NET is a different beast altogether, and it kicks 9 different shades of sh*t out of both ASP & PHP. And in theory, it doesnt matter what background you come from, you should be able to find a .NET language to suit:
    C++ to Managed C++ or C#
    Java/J++ to C#/J#
    VB6 to VB.NET/C#

    If you can't find a 'syntax/structure' there that you like/are comfortable with, I would guess you are very much on the periphery of the development world.

    Also, .NET is free. The framework/CLR is totally free, as are the compilers. The thingy you can optionally pay for is Visual Studio.NET, but this is not essential to developing .NET code. What is more for ASP.NET, MS have provided a free (albeit cut-down) development tool - ASP.NET Web Matrix.

    There are plenty of reasons not to use ASP.NET, but bias against Microsoft/Windows shouldnt be one of them. In the business world, decisions need to be a bit more objective than this.

    In answer to OneSeventeens original question: I would follow Hepaths logic - if PHP works for you, I would be very cautious about abondoning it for .NET on a whim. Maybe the correct course of action is to run a few .NET prototypes... you might find that it offers you little. On the other hand, it might be a revelation. Regardless, it enables you to offer a choice to your customers.

    Just my £0.02

    Chris

    [Note: I'm being slightly hypocritical here: I've not used .NET on a live site yet because it's been a bigger move to get to the same level as I am with ASP.]
     
  16. Starbuck3733T

    Starbuck3733T Look out sugar, here it comes

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    I was slightly into ASP and heavily into Perl in my old job. I really hated ASP, it was clunky and couldn't do near the number of things that perl could. It was harder to debug too. The dbs I talked to weere mySQL and Access (ugh) and some ODBC to DB2 on an AS/400.

    Anyway...
    I've gone head long into ASP.NET in the new job, and while I agree if I were coding completely by hand I'd still be perl all the way, Visual Studio.NET 2003 is a godsend. Don't do ASP.NET or VB.NET with out it. BTW, I'm writing all this stuff in VB for ASP.Net. C# just isn't neccessary, though I do miss my curly brackets and things like that for structing.

    ASP.NET added method stacking, which I REALLY missed about ASP (especially since ASP felt so far away from javascript.. odd comparison I know.)

    The development environment makes it STUPIDLY easy to interface with SQL2000. Drag a stored procedure on, and bam, you've got the object to work with it. Go through a cakewalk wizard to make your data adapters. Make typed datasets in a few minuets. These things alone make it worth it.

    PHP is something i'm in the process of learning, specifically so I can fiddle with osCommerce, an open source e-commerce solution.

    The development environment makes the VB.net/asp.net the best, for me. Once you have intellisense you'll never want to go back.
     
  17. OneSeventeen

    OneSeventeen Oooh Shiny!

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    Thanks, the replies are getting much more useful :)

    Although I loved hearing people share my opinion, its nice to get some objective opinions. I just didn't know if there were any special features that ASP has that PHP doesn't, but then I realized, I'd rather just find something and 'specialize' in it... I know a lot of people call this pigeon-holing, but if I keep with PHP, it won't matter because if I get well enough into it, I'll just start writing my own extensions in C, so if there is something ASP/ASP.NET does that PHP doesn't, I can just make PHP do it. (That will be way later on down the road, of course).

    I will probably try to pick up ASP, but won't really try too hard, since PHP works just fine.
     
  18. Hepath

    Hepath Minimodder

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    Sorry I dont think I may have explained my self clearly. So I'd better qualify what I meant the implication that ".NET" is not free; when its available as a download from Microsoft for free!

    Our discussion is based around web sites and more importantly the hosting of them. The cost I was referring to was that of the requirement of having to host ASP.NET within IIS. This means that you must run a Microsoft OS and therefore adds an additional cost and maintainence overhead.

    Staarbuck:
    Could you qualify what you mean by "ASP.NET added method stacking?" Not sure I follow what you mean?

    Also be careful of using that datawizard the SQL it generates can be exceedingly 'dodgy' - its far easier to write your own stored procedures and add them to your own SqlDataAdapter. This is virtually a taken for granted when wanting to use two or more tables. The generated SQL is very inefficient.

    Would someone also please tell ME about PHP: not the language per se, I can get a book to tell me that, but rather things like:
    1. Its hosting requirements
    2. Is it compiled?
    3. Server requirements
    4. Primary use; is it just a server-sied unix scripting language (a la vb script)
    5. Is it "a script language" or is it more powerful?

    I've never seen it on a server box; much less used it so would be interested. I can then guage (possibly) its strengths against ASP/AS.NET.

    I'd love to hear the replies - seems like a good thread in which to discuss (unless there is already one!)

    Stu
     
  19. cjmUK

    cjmUK Old git.

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    I'd echo this. While I'm not an expert on .NET, historically there have been many packages that offer automated routes to code this & that. Some are better than others, but all can be beaten by a (well-) hand-coded solution.

    AFAIK it's very similar to ASP in scope & function. But why dont you install it and see for yourself. Obviously it is designed by Apache and links perfectly with Apache, but it also works beautifully with IIS.

    As for hosting, my current hosting company, www.discountasp.net, offers PHP/MySQL in addition to the usual ASP/Access/SQL Server options - there are plenty of other providers who offer this, so you dont need a seperate *nix hosting account...

    Chris
     
  20. Joel

    Joel What's a Dremel?

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    Hosting Requirements - Apache/IIS thats about it
    is it compiled - no, its a scripted language, with with a compiled binary to process the scripts
    server requirements - i think its minimum spec is a 233 with 64 meg ram
    primary use - server side web scrtipting language,but can be used as a UNIX script language with the php-cli binary

    its is a script language, but its scope for integration is massive, supports most SQL databases, image functions via imagemagick/GD and lots of other stuff, have a read on www.php.net there some pretty good guides and introductions on there
     

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