Because its something that we need...

Discussion in 'Serious' started by chrisb2e9, 12 Sep 2007.

  1. Mother-Goose

    Mother-Goose 5 o'clock somewhere

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    Which is the problem, but on the flip side it is a war, and it didn't stop the nuke being dropped (although I can see why they develiped bombs like this so they didn't have to use nukes for the same kind of damage).

    Whilst I think this bomb is a good weapon (all relative I know seeing as weapons in general aren't "good"), these days you just aren't allowed to go and bomb the **** out of somewhere to get the few people you are after.

    It would litterally be the Blitz all over again, except the damage caused by a few weeks of bombing raids could be caused in one night with several M.O.A.B's (shock and awe).

    The argument is why should innocent civilians die just because of a war that is going on in their country that they don't want to be part of? How was the blitz any different?
     
  2. Nexxo

    Nexxo * Prefab Sprout – The King of Rock 'n' Roll

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    ...which is my point. Don't think that big actions will not result in big retaliation.
     
  3. Mother-Goose

    Mother-Goose 5 o'clock somewhere

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    Depends who you are fighting, but no, not from the iraqi's.

    The Iranians perhaps, but then they'd bomb them back to the stoneage given half the chance.

    Infact, flattern the middle east, it just causes problems and stops other stuff getting to the news.
     
  4. Nexxo

    Nexxo * Prefab Sprout – The King of Rock 'n' Roll

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    It wasn't. But those were barbaric times, and perhaps after two world wars, the Korean war, the Vietnam war and Gulf War mk.1 and 2 we should have learned something by now.

    After the Korean war, a politician (I forget who) drew this conclusion:
    "Shock and awe" is the wet dream of a psychopath. History shows time and again that it does not work, and that big guns are nothing against the determination of large numbers of people who have nothing left to lose and think nothing of giving up their lives. When the A-bomb dropped, it was the emperor of Japan who capitulated. Many of the population still wanted to fight.
     
  5. Nexxo

    Nexxo * Prefab Sprout – The King of Rock 'n' Roll

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    Really? Why is the US talking about withdrawal then? Let's face it, the big ol' US army had its ass kicked all over Iraq.

    Like the US threatened to do with Pakistan? And that one is supposed to be an ally. With friends like these...

    Radical idea: leave the Middle East alone, and flatten the US. The Middle East actually produces oil, whereas the US just takes up 25% of all world resources and starts up wars all over the place. Let's face it: the US is bad for the world economy. Time to pull the plug and re-invest. :p
     
  6. specofdust

    specofdust Banned

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    Well for a start, Germany was democratic. The actions of the german military, and leadership, were actions taken on behalf of the population.

    But more importantly, world war 2 was what's termed "total war". I.E. a war in which the entire nation is put to use in the war effort. All those who do not fight, produce more, consume less, and aid with the country's ability to wage war.

    There aren't any major total wars going on right now, Iraq doesn't even come close.

    That was a single person in the US Nexxo, you know that it doesn't apply to every US government person just as a crazy fundy Iraqi in their govt. who's happy with US deaths doesn't mean they all are.
     
  7. Nexxo

    Nexxo * Prefab Sprout – The King of Rock 'n' Roll

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    Well, nominally, but that is a good point.

    Same attitude as Mother-Gooser, though. He may think that he is Internet Tough Guy with a hard-hitting view on war and politics, but when it comes from the mouth of a real politician you realise how crazy it actually sounds.
     
  8. specofdust

    specofdust Banned

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    Dude this guy was something like a secretary to a junior senator or something ridiculously minor who actually said it. In any government that employs thousands of people, sooner or later you're going to get some stupid loudmouth saying something idiotic.

    You know I'm no fan of the US government, but I don't like to write off entire government's as having policy X just because a single person has said something that would be consistant with policy X. It jumps to an unfair conclusion, and I think that's what you're doing.
     
  9. Veles

    Veles DUR HUR

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    Well, this doesn't have to be dropped on a city, it could be used to attack a purely (or mostly) military target
     
  10. specofdust

    specofdust Banned

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    There's not really any reason though. I mean the things will be fantasticly expensive, and if you can get a bomber that's big enough to mount one in to be flying over a military target, why not just bomb it conventionally? There really doesn't seem to be a great deal of point to it beyond stuff like mine clearance.
     
  11. cpemma

    cpemma Ecky thump

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    Only a deputy secretary. ;)
     
  12. Veles

    Veles DUR HUR

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    So he makes the tea or something then? :p

    I suppose it's just to give Putin some more man points then, doesn't really seem to be much reason behind it at all other than some Russian scientist played C&C Generals Zero Hour and thought he really wanted to make a MOAB.
     
  13. Nexxo

    Nexxo * Prefab Sprout – The King of Rock 'n' Roll

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    You are missing my point (or I am just unclear in making it). Mother-Gooser expressed a political viewpoint which he thinks (I assume) makes some kind of sense. I am giving the example that when the same statement comes from a politician, we recognise it as crazy talk, not a viable political strategy. Whether the rest of the US government stands behind him is another story. Although he is its Deputy Secretary of State.
     
  14. Akava

    Akava Lurking...

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    I Lol'd :D

    QFT! :thumb:
     
  15. JCG

    JCG What's a Dremel?

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    I have to urge to invoke Godwin's law. Are you seriously suggesting genocide here?
     
  16. Jumeira_Johnny

    Jumeira_Johnny 16032 - High plains drifter

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    You guys DO realize that these weapons, the Mother and Father bombs, aren't particularly useful in most situations. The original bomb of this type was developed to create landing zones for medi-vac helicopters and hill top fire bases. They don't do much besides go boom. The shock wave is to great to be of tactical use, and there are no penetrative or shrapnel effects. Most modern mines have overpressure safeties so they ignore stuff like this. Really, besides tunnels and trees, this is all about the E-peen.

    If you really want to bomb people and kill lots of them you use the MK8x family. Lots of them. Laser, GPS, drag, gravity-500lbs, 1000lbs, 2000lbs-so many flavors and sizes. They are by far more effective. and easier to load.
     
  17. Rebourne

    Rebourne What's a Dremel?

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    It all depends on how it's used. If they use it to deflect asteroids and comets then I'm okay with it. If they use it to hurt and scare people then they are jackasses.
     
  18. Veles

    Veles DUR HUR

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    Would that really help if they've been vaporised? Well, even if it doesn't vaporise, it's still gonna be ****ed up to the point where it's likely not to work anymore.
     
  19. Mother-Goose

    Mother-Goose 5 o'clock somewhere

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    Finally, the reaction I was looking for!

    It has taken ages for someone to come up with this, the russians only demonstrated this bomb for one reason, to get the West's attention, I am reasonably sure they don't really care what is going on in the middle east, and as it has been pointed out, a weapon like this isn't very effective in places such as the middle east, not unless you dropped it on a city, and none of the western forces in Iraq would do that right now (not on purpose anyway:duh:)

    BUT, put this foab in context, if you dropped this on to new york, just one, the damage would be HUGE. In terms of human deaths, it would be quite high, but the real damage would come from the shockwave that would damage the physcial infrastructure of the city it was dropped on, this often has a bigger impact on the nation. Look at the damage done by Katrina in new orleans, high death toll, it was tragic so many lives were lost, but they are still recovering and rebuilding, almost 2 years (I think?) after the storm. This is the kind of impact a foab would have.

    This kind of weapon is not used designed to be a deterant, that's what they have nukes for these days.
     
  20. specofdust

    specofdust Banned

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    It's a common misconception that we'd actually detect any incoming intersteller asteroid or comet. We're able to track the ones that go around and around the solar system moderately well, but an asteroid or comet could (and will, eventually) easily come into our solar system, and smack into earth without anyone ever detecting it. The chances of us detecting one of these things before it hits are absolutely miniscule. You can rest assured that when the fiery death of a comet collision will come unwarned and be super quick, and IIRC we're long overdue for a large collision.

    Just a little comforting thing for ye
     

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