Cooling Best Radiator?

Hi again people!

Asked a couple of questions like yesturday about watercooling, but since MDK has been making those grills and my cooling kit is about to arrive I've got thinking...

Looking through the threads, it also seems bigger isn't always better... and I know in the spirit of customisation and that, I should work on a trial, error, make it better basis, but it costs too much to make lots of mistakes.

So ... which rad is the best?


I'm cooling a fair few things (NB, PSU, 2xHD, GPU) - so it's gotta be good, but not too much resistance, or the pump won't hack it. Also, space isn't too important, but I'd like it internal to something, so 3x120mm is the biggest really.

w.

 

From personal experience i had CPU - NB - GPU - HD all running off a 24k gold BIX with temps around 33c on a stock XP2600+

Later i tried it with a Thermochill 120.1 and got the same temps but reverted back to the gold BIX as it looked better in an acrylic case.

I can't really comment on larger rads as I've only ran 120.2's and 120.3's in test set ups (single CPU block)

 

Sweet, so a mere single 120mm handled it? wow, must say I wasn't expecting that!

Looking at all the KCal's per hour figures between different makes are confusing - as you know - they all depend on different temp gradients and all that. So it's quite hard to form a good opinion.

I don't have an intake on the front of my case, it's actually on the bottom and I have the case on speaker stands for air flow. So I think now I could put a rad along the floor and get a 120mm fan or two in there (depending on how it sits with the pump).


I'll let you know (no doubt when I order the thing's from N'Castle!!! )


Oh, and coolmeister - I know I have the most weird sleeping pattern on earth thanks to a strange liking of coffee and a poor student lifestyle - but it seems within 5 minutes of a post you reply. I can post now after 2am or in the morning at around 10 and you're here! DEDICATION!

 

If its a 1/2" system your building i'd go for the Black Ice Extreme as it comes with the barbs already on it, you will need to buy them if you get a thermochill. So it will save you a couple of quid that way Not saying anything bad about the thermochill rads as i've never had one, but i've got the BIX and it works a treat, kept my 9800pro and xp2500@2.1Ghz at a tidy 36'c at full load. Even with the fan on the lowest setting it only just hit 38'c. quality!

 

bonus! When I get the chance I'm going to open up m'box and see what kind of space is left around - it seems size matters less than I though!

(still, the parts are yet to arrive!)

 

The advantage of the larger rads is that you can use undervolted or quieter fans yet still get similar cooling performance.

8-ball

 

I'd recommend BlackIce Extreme...that's just me though

 

Is BIX just short for Black Ice Extreme or is it a different radiator? I'm inclined to believe it's the first but not completely sure so can someone enlighten me?

 

Yeah BIX = Black Ice Extreme

 

So am I right in thinking that the BIX radiator is ahead of the game in that it's say worth a double 120mm radiator by a different company?

That way I can undervolt the fan on the BIX and get the same results as with an undervolted 120.2 say?

I know 'most' of you guys may not have directly compared radiators like this, but what's your guesses?

 

I wouldn't say the BIX is THAT good. I think a 120.2 would give better cooling.

It is just one of the better rad sesigns.

The thermochill range are probably as good.

8-ball

 

I setup a friend's system with a danger den pro heatercore and it whoops my BIX's ass.

 

groovy....


ahhh, it's sooo difficult my head hurts! Um, I think I'm going for a 120.2 if it fits and it's got better cooling power than the BIX.


(Hey, 8-ball, what you reading? and where? I think I saw it in a thread somewhere but I forget)

 

Metallurgy and the science of materials at Trinity College, Oxford.

8-ball

 

My personal opinion is really that radiator technology is quite old, as such pretty much has improved as much it's going to. I'd go with a heatercore that fits inside your computer comfortably. BTW IS there any real differance bteween a BIX and a heater core ? I haven't actually looked a BIX over, but from the looks of them, there isn't anything new or revolutionary about it. I got a heater core from an S-10 Chevy on Ebay for $7.00 (after shipping...price was $2.00), after a quick once over with the Dremel it looks brand new (FYI this core measures about 8"x6.25x1.875" w/o the little resevoirs on top and bottom...which add about an inch to overall height.) The outlets are 5/8" and 3/4"
I'm not saying that it's better than a BIX, but I'd be willing to bet on a cost/benifit analysis it's a better deal. I wish there was some kind of shoot-out with custom radiators and heater cores to see if there's much of a performance gap.

 

While a good heatercore will probably perform better, you can't argue that the BIX wins on both looks and simplicity (it comes with the correct fittings for both pipes and fans, taking away much of the hassle associated with heatercores)

The BIX and thermochill range, along with a few others, are also the perfect size to fit in many of the spaces people have in their case with minimal modding required.

Bit-tech is also primarily a modding community, where looks tend to be important. As such, in most cases, the BIX or thermochill rads will look better.

8-ball

 

I guess that would be a matter of opinion, personally I've found the BIX to be rather plain looking.. Simplicity yeah...definately easier but then this is a modding community, right? While looks are important, I'm of the opinion that performance is the most important issue. If iyour water isn't getting adaquete cooling then it doesn't matter how good it looks. Personally I like how some heater cores look...

 

I can see both sides there...

A Heatcore from a car or something might be alot cheaper and look good if enough time is taken. It also requires more modification - which is why bit-tech is here. But I'm at uni so I don't have my little workshop which I do at home, or half my tools. That means I either buy a ready made one with only minor moddage or fudge a big mod.

So that's why I think in this case, buying one is a better option. Guess it depends who you are there.



On the new/old technology side of things...
This is what I always thought about speakers, they been around awhile and they've always been the same (apart from flat ones etc). So I thought there can't be much difference. But I got hold of a nice set and it's surprising what difference there is with a few tweaks from technology. Just thought the same might apply here.
Or that could just be a vague link - ah, you get the idea.


(Have some friends in Ox you see 8-ball, but they're in Pembroke and Madgalin <-sp!!! Doing music, law or maths, so I guess you might not know them)

 

Magdalen, but don't worry. Most of the people at oxford don't know how it is spelt.

8-ball

 

When I was choosing my radiator, I did a lot of research. Initially, I was tempted by a BIX simply because they're quite handsome, and seem to work well if you believe most people's opinion. I changed my mind however after reading an article by Bill Adams. This article is over at www.overclockers.com and can be found here:

Radiator Heat Dissipation Testing

It's quite a long article, but it's well worth the read if you want to be informed about the performance of various types of radiators. It's the most comprehensive and extensive article I've personally read on PC water-cooling. The best bit about it is that the testing is done in a very scientific manner. Bill Adams seems to have access to equipment that most of us have never even heard of (the equipment used is listed). He includes a comparison of 10 radiators of varying types. One of the radiators he includes is a Black Ice (not the Black Ice Extreme - this isn't included because the article was written in 2001, and the BIX wasn't released yet), which is a fore runner to the BIX. To be fair, the BIX is a different radiator than the previous Black Ice, so results will be different. However, from the specifications I've seen, the BIX seems to be an inferior version of the typical car heater cores that many people use. If you look at the gold bling BIX in coolmiester's picture above you can see the BIX is about the same size as a 120mm fan (or at least the matrix area is), whereas most heater cores are larger than a 120mm by some way. Bill Adams also includes a heater core in the test (which he calls a Big Momma); this comes second in the results only to a Serck industrial radiator, which is a bit larger than it. Interestingly, he also includes figures for static back-pressure (of air) when using a fan to cool the radiators. Bill also includes links to some references he used. The thing that I like about the article is that he does the testing across a wide range of flow rates, and static fan back pressures, so that typical values as used by most people trying to water cool can be compared for each rad. This way, you can look at a flow rate, and static back pressure that you're likely to achieve using the combination of components that you're intending to get (he also includes figures for the pressure drop vs flow rate for the radiators). Everything is presented in charts as well (a picture paints a thousand words).

I'm not saying not to get the BIX, but this article is a good read if you're uncertain, and need to get a few things straight. I didn't get one in the end because the car heater core types are cheap, and perform superbly. I don't even need a fan on mine, it just uses natural convection and I still get temps of 40C idling (after settling for a couple of hours), and 50C under heavy load for prolonged periods on the CPU. Contrary to popular myth, you can buy heater cores with the ubiquitous 3/8" or 1/2" barbs already installed, and a finish applied to the outside. See here for an example of the rad I have, which I found in a matter of minutes (don't remember where I bought mine from originally, but, this is the same rad):

Heater Core ready to Go

$55 US isn't bad. Of course, you can ago down to a scrap yard, get one for pennies, and then mod it yourself if you want to pay a lot less. You'll notice that the rad in the picture is quite a bit larger than a 120mm fan. The shroud to connect a 120mm fan to the rad is flared. The actual rad is an inch and a bit larger all round than a 120mm fan (not including the inlet and outlet plenums). The shroud is useful I find because it puts distance between the fan and the rad making it quieter. This is something that Bill discusses in his article if I remember correctly. These may be a bit large for some people, so I can see why they go for a BIX. Plus, if you buy from the States now, the exchange is $1.89 to the pound (at the time of writing).

Even if you've set your heart on a BIX, read the article anyway as it's very good. Hope this is helpful to you.