At 0126 this morning £300.00 was withdrawn from the ATM machine at Abbey National, Kilburn High Road, London, NW6 7HS. I was asleep at this time so how should I know this? Well, the money was withdrawn from my account using what I can only assume was a cloned card. Beware, chip and pin only gives thieves more access to your money. Every transaction you make with your chip and pin card requires your pin number to authorise. The system is no more secure and furthermore, only speeds the process with which your money can be taken. Think hard next time you take out your flexible friend... I may cost you more than you expect. Kane (Now very skint)
In all fairness its probably not a clone of the chip and was most likley cloned while using it at a cash machine as thats the place that they can hide a camera most easily. I say this because as far as I am aware the chip isn't actually read by the cash machines themselves and they STILL use the magnetic stripe.
This is precisly why I only have a £100/day limit on how much I can take out. I rarely need more and if I do I can do it over the counter. And you should always check the cashpoint for anything that looks suspicous and try and use the inbank cashpoints too. I assume that you have blocked the card and contacted your bank? Some machines have cameras (sometimes hidden) in front for additional security so it may be possible that the bank has a picture of the theif.
a couple of weeks ago i stopped off at the cashpoint outside sainsburys and took out £20 as i was keying in my pin number between the 3rd and 4th digit i caught a glimpse of what i can only explain as a windows error popup which had some text in it. it was there for no more than half a second but i know i saw it and it had something written in it that had the word "virus" i withdrew my money as i had already entered my full pin at this point but thought i should call the bank and they said "well its a bit late now ~(20:35) so can you call back another time and speak to the technical team. Thanks" you what!!! i dont think he really took me seriously and looking at this post im not sure if i would either but i know what i saw none the less they are watching
They use windows for anything, even for something that should be secure. Take a look at this I took in Toronto, Canada back in October 2004:
Cashpoints are run on windows nt, fact. Those are pics of one that crashed in paris, then re-booted using win nt.
Chip and Pin is considerably safer then a signature system, which was basicly completely ineffective. Fraud of credit and debit cards has decreased sharply since Chip and Pin was brought in. Regardless, its more likely that you used a bad cash point, one that has some form of tools on it to copy the card and record the pin number. Those things aren't that uncommon, and they're often so discrete that many don't notice them.
I make a point to always use the inside cashpoints. especially as you're more likely to get an accidentally misplaced card back... - H.
I only keep a minor amount of cash in my account at any time for this reason. If you manage to clone my card or whatever you aren't gonna have much fun...
Have to ask RTT(btw, rtt = round trip time? Or different?) how do you manage to keep enough in your account, without too much, on a regular basis? Do you just transfer what you need on a nightly basis, or what? Fair enough if you don't want to answer that, but it seems like a good idea, I just can't think how it'd be efficiently implemented.
Same here, although not by choice Best advice I've ever seen was the tap the cash machine before putting your card in. If it doesn't feel solid something might be tampered with.
chip and pin is much more secure. however it is not aimed to curb the kind of fraud you are talking about. its made to stop people stealing your card walking into a shop and copying the name on the back of the card to get at your money. it is much harder to get at your pin then your signature. If your card was skimmed and they have your pin your pritty much screwed. but this was always the case and was not infulenced by the change to chip/pin ring up your bank and tell them what happend. its highly likly they will refund you. this is coming from someone who works in a bank btw.
How exactly? Chip and pin is the most stupid thing I have ever heard of. Ok, so you need a super secure PIN to get out your money, great. And then you type this number in at every transaction point with virtually no shielding? WTF? Any serious thief would spot a "mark", note their pin when they typed it, mug the person of their card and withdraw cash within 5 mins of taking the card. And disappear without a trace. What they REALLY need is a PIN for cashpoints, withdrawals, and a different number for transactions.
Well, the thing is, anything is better then nothing, and a signature was as good as nothing. I saw some experiments done by a guy for his website, in them, he experimented with giving differnet forms of signature. To start off with, he'd just sign his name slightly differently, which caused no response, but by the end of this thing, he was writing his name in Egyption hyroglyphs with absoltely no problems from the cashiers, who clearly weren't bothering to look at his signature at all. I mean, you have to be damn well ignoring the thing not to see your client has drawn stick men dancing on their credit card as opposed to signing it. So a pin is better then nothing, and overall, it's lowered certain types of crime far more then its raised other types
The articles I remember are here. BTW, read EVERYTHING on the page, he even has funny captions for his signature (and yes, he posts his credit card signature on the web). http://www.zug.com/pranks/credit/ and http://www.zug.com/pranks/credit_card/ . Great stuff. And yes, it's true. I (aged 14) sign my mom's receipts in the supermarket. Her card lists that she's been a member since like 1967 or something. I'm clearly not that old!
There was a scam using chip and pin in my mother's home town about a month ago, The local Jet garage was cloning cards and using the CCTV system to steal people's PIN numbers. Needless to say, after this was reported in the local press, the garage had a very prominent sign outside saying "Under new management" So yes, it is more secure than signatures, but isn't the completely secure solution that we're told it is. Also, don't always assume that your card was cloned at the cash machine 0 not necessarily. ...and a lot of ATMs are still based around OS/2 as well as NT
Love the pic you took MrWillyWonka. My sister had her card copied, not her ATM card but her credit card, she found out about it when the bank asked if she had been to Hong Kong recently. There were 2 purchases made by swiping the card in some stores over there, you just have to be careful.
i prefer getting my cash from a living breathing teller. i've seen too many machines eat cards and cash (mostly because i was the one at the bank responsible for the balancing/restocking of the atms). talk to your customer service reps. they'll most likely refund your money and investigate the transaction.
So, whats safer... Stealing a card and just copying a signature or... Stalking someone to get a pin and then stealing the card. If your going to clone a card then in the past you made up your own signature. Not possible now without knowing the pin. Much safer i think.
