Discussion in 'Article Discussion' started by Sifter3000, 11 Feb 2010.
hmm might have to skip this one..
What odds? He hates it and removed it!
It'd be hypocritical of me to judge game pirates harshly, so I won't. I think the industry brings it on themselves by over-hyping inferior products. Gets to the point where it's near impossible to know what's good and what isn't unless you actually get stuck in yourself. As long as people do pony up the dough for games that they enjoy (and a great number of people do, and also through the sale of things like DLC and so forth) then piracy is not especially damaging. I have no time for people who pirate a game, love it and squeeze it and call it George, but don't have the common courtesy to buy it. Getting a pre-purchase hands on with a game and finding out that it fails to deliver on what it claimed to, that's common sense in a world where getting a straight opinion on a game which is in tune with your own isn't always easy.
Joe's point being that if he had liked it he wouldn't have bought it... Way to be facetious though.
People steal cars on a regular basis and then just abandon them at the side of the road or in a field. Doesn't make it right.
Well see, my plan was to pirate the game, and make 2k lose money. That way they'll stop releasing this unimaginative crap on PC.
No, they'll just stop releasing games on PC at all. Then you'll cry that PC gaming is dead and that you have to pay more to buy the way more expensive console games.
thing is it's too easy to pirate.. I mean you have people on the botnet who run around and think they are pirates- can barely tie their own shoes
But most decent human beings have that voice in their heads that says "its wrong, I won't do it".
Like any market, gaming is all about demand and supply. If people don't pay, the market disappears. It isn't a victimless crime either, the victims aren't the publishers or the developers - they've got other markets to nurture - the victims are the people you share the forum with who are willing to pay but have to watch a bunch of miscreants destroy the market and even have the cheek to brag about it.
That's comparative to pirating games lol.
You're missing the point, both activities are wrong. You take something you haven't paid for. Just because you don't keep it, doesn't mean you didn't steal it in the first place.
Just a general point but piracy is not stealing. If I steal a car, then the owner of that car does not have it any more. If I pirate a game I am not taking it away from somebody else, I am creating an illegal copy. Ethically it is a lesser crime than stealing because the victim loses nothing. One can argue that they lose revenue, but this argument assumes that the pirate was going to buy the game. If a person pirates a game that they never intended to purchase then realistically nobody has lost anything, some ill-getting of gains has taken place, but that's all.
And people told me a philosophy degree was no use in IT
god not this ****ing arguement again!
Don't even get me started on how that has absolutely nothing to do with pirating games, and is hardly even comparable.
Also, don't get me started on how you have jumped to the conclusion that I am saying pirating is right. I'm not.
And finally, Joe is making an argument based on something he has just assumed about someone he has never met across the internet. Frankly, anyone even bothering to bring up the piracy debate is just a dick looking for a bit of entertainment. Otherwise I see no real reason to bring it up, everyone knows the topics go nowhere, and eventually die out, and each side is just more convinced they are right. I really get sick of it.
Obviously it's no-one in particulars fault, and I'm not blaming Joe here since there were others somewhat bragging about pirating it first, but come on, you're just taking the bait if you decide to spend 5 minutes of your life writing out what you have basically written out every other time someone brings up piracy. All the arguments are old, and it get's really irritating.
Back to the game....
Bought for a respectable price... Only a short way into it so far. As people have said, it's hardly ripping up trees when it comes to taking the story or game-play further on, but it is enjoyable enough. An expansion pack? Probably.
I'll finish the game, having enjoyed it, and will sell it here or on Ebay for at least 75% of the original price (the perks of being non-Steam) and will invest the money in the next game - probably ME2, another pleasant but unambitious sequel.
In effect, I end up paying around £5-£8 per game, unless it is something I'm going to keep and play multiple times (rare for SP games).
Not wanting to get too pious about pirating, but surely we all can afford to pay up to £10 (net) for a game? Want to play the game but make a protest of some sort? Think £25+ is too much for the consolised, generic crap that the publishers keep feediing us? Wait a few weeks and then buy my copy on Ebay. The devs don't get any additional royalties, you help cut my costs and the costs of people like me, and you get to go to bed with a warm glow, know that you aren't breaking any laws...
Here me now - the only people who 'weaken the market' are those that produce sub-par material and flog it as if it were the next sliced bread.
I can tell you now, I will not be buying the game. Not now. I only got Bioshock 1 a month or so ago (with Elder Scrolls: Oblivion - for £5 all in) and only played about 5 minutes of it, but it already seems like I won't get into it (maybe I will, who knows), so why would I go and fork out 20-odd quid for this Bioshock 2? Am I weakening the market by not buying it? No - I am, with the rest of the pc game buying population, the market. As the market, my interest in the game was weakened by the so-so first impression I got with Bioshock 1, the review I read of Bioshock 2, the apparent 'over-hype' being referred to, the price of the game, the other games on offer, and other forms of entertainment etc.
So now we've established that I am not weakening the market by electing not to buy the game, what does it matter if I later borrow it off a mate? What if I just play it round a mate's house and decide I don't like it? So what if I download it instead?
We're the consumers - we have the control. When the product and the price reach the right equilibrium I will buy. However, don't blame me if you value a game more than I do. Blame the fact that you earn more than me, or have nothing else to do with your time, or the advert you saw got you all excited. I am under no obligation to buy something just to subsidise you.
How old are you? Like 12?
'We have the control'?
If you wanted a new pair of jeans and they cost £80 (which you regarded as poor value for money, given the quality of the jeans), would you...
a) Buy the jeans anyway?
b) Buy a different pair of jeans that you like that cost < £50?
c) Wait until the jeans were in a sale at an appropriate price?
d) Borrow the jeans from a friend?
e) Steal the jeans, because other people earn more money than you, you thought they were poor value for money, were over-hyped and you didn't like the version of jeans from last season?
[I'll give you a little bit of guidance here; options a through d are all perfectly legal.]
I'm sure when you are in front of the beak on shop-lifting charges that he'll see sense when you explain that you were in control and were merely waiting for the product and the price to reach the right [sic] equilibrium.
"But pirating is not stealing!". No it's not, it's a copyright infringement, but it's still illegal.
But you are under an obligation for pay for games, just like the rest of us.
Tell me... how far does this sense of entitlement stretch? What other goods and services do you feel you don't need to pay for?
So I am under an obligation to pay for a game I don't want and will not play? If that's the case, why not just make all games free and get the treasury to finance the game developers through income tax and national insurance - I must have missed the part about what a valuable contribution games make to society.
So tell me, what else would you have me buy to help make them cheaper for you and sustain their supply? Cigarettes? Porno mags? Would you like me to go down to my local pub and buy a few drinks to help it through these difficult times?
I buy the games I want, but never at rrp or anywhere close. I'd be interested to know what the average price point a game must drop to before the producers and distributors lose money. If a game drops below that price, and then I buy it, am I committing a heinous act?
I'm not trying to associate games with damaging products such as cigarettes etc. - but if I don't want something, I'm not gonna buy it. I don't want Bioshock2 at the moment, I'm not going to buy it at the moment.
My post was not intended to condone the downloading of games, it was to point out that those who choose not to buy are not weakening the market. Those who acquire the game and then list it on a torrent site, making it available for others to download, there's a different story... and you won't find me defending them, as much as I do congratulate them on their perseverance in pissing a whole lot of people off.
I can not believe that there are not more posts about how INCREDIBLY bugged this game is! If you go on 2Kâ€™s forum youâ€™ll find hundreds of people from all platforms complaining about numerous bugs that essentially make the game unplayable and, unfortunately, Iâ€™m one of them! Anytime you go into a menu the frame rate slows to a grinding halt and after applying my first hacking tonic, the hacking needle has disappeared altogether!
They put a patch out already, but didnâ€™t address many of the issues people are havingâ€¦for shame 2K!
Itâ€™s ironic that I bought Bioshock 2 and STALKER â€“ Pripyat on the same day expecting to be playing Bioshock because STALKER would be a buggy as its predecessors, but it is completely the other way around!
I just got this game for £9.99, to be honest i'm not that impressed with it. The graphics look a bit crappy and it feels like it's just cashing in on the original. It's like a poor man's bioshock. Glad I didn't pay anymore for it, the games not worth £25. And I really loved the original.
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