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Motors Bit-Tech F1 2017 thread - Season Complete

Discussion in 'General' started by RedFlames, 27 Nov 2016.

  1. javaman

    javaman May irritate Eyes

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    That's a very good point Bindi, any ICE and hybrid era will be on the way out come 2020 in most countries in favour of all electric. Should f1 be looking even more towards electric motors or completely pivot and bring on hydrogen fuel?
    I do think there is a conflict that its hard to justify spending so much on development if it all comes to nothing in the real world. These are corporations at the end of the day that ultimately compete for research (which can happen elsewhere) or prestige.
    I wonder if AWD is on the table. It sounds unlikely and none of the teams seem to have mentioned it.
     
  2. fix-the-spade

    fix-the-spade Well-Known Member

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    That's assuming Formula E survives the coming onslaught of Porsche, Audi and Mercedes. They are all pushing for de-regulation of the series and they'll all be be bringing WEC/DTM level budgets into the series, it certainly won't be the first series they spent into oblivion if they do kill it.

    I keep seeing this but outside of city centres who the actuall Eff is supposed to be buying all these electric vehicles in the next two years? Even hybrids are still a rarity out here in rural Yorkshire, all electric vehicles may as well come with a free unicorn horn fitted.
     
  3. legoman

    legoman breaker of things

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    Not sure about up north but down here I see plently or hybrid and pure electric cars daily. We even have a Tesla dealership here.
     
  4. fix-the-spade

    fix-the-spade Well-Known Member

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    You're in Milton Keynes, which is exactly the kind of place I would expect electric cars to sell well, very centralised, close to London and with various high tech companies based nearby offering high paying jobs. It's the kind of place where new infrastructure just sort of lands one day and enough residents can afford to buy £50k cars because it's fashionable for it to be viable.

    I live in a place called Pateley Bridge, there are no fast charging points in Pateley Bridge. The nearest is 14 miles away in Harrogate and it's got 2 sockets, after that it's Leeds or York, heading North I have no idea, it might be as far as Newcastle. We also get power cuts, so forget charging it at home in winter.

    I don't see all electric cars being viable up here for some time. Maybe 10-15years, but two is a laugh.
     
  5. RedFlames

    RedFlames ...is not a Belgian football team

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    There is 1 Tesla supercharger in the entire of Tyne and Wear [Washington Services], if you can't use that one you're looking at Gretna or Leeds [the one in Harrgoate is a 'destination', i.e. slow, charger and you have to call in advance to use it]. There are a few of the slow chargers [Tesla or otherwise] but you can't use any of them, they're either reserved for guests of whichever hotel they're attached to or reserved for the local council's EVs.

    Also charging at home is only even vaguely an option of you have a garage or at the very least a driveway. On-street parking? [or in my case opposite side of the road parking], yeah good luck charging an EV. And that's before you factoring the local yokels either unplugging it mid charge or just outright cutting and/or stealing the cable.

    And anyone hoping the govt will step up and help with EV infrastructure rollout i have two words: Rural. Broadband.
     
    Last edited: 1 Nov 2017
  6. rollo

    rollo Well-Known Member

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    People seem to think it will hurt Mercedes but if my memory is accurate when was the last bad Mercedes engine?

    Mercedes problems are more Aero related in the passed, with them burning through the tyres.

    Yeah there qualy mode sometimes makes Saturdays look one sided but I am surprised we have not saw this Out of other teams

    If they force them to run at 15k rpm I would assume we need all new engines costs would be crazy if they did that. Even the turbo and Kers style thing will all cost extra money.

    Not sure how this brings down development costs as there is no way to limit what they spend on engine development as all 4 current manufactures currently count engine costs as RnD and not part of the F1 team.
     
  7. RedFlames

    RedFlames ...is not a Belgian football team

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    From what i've seen Mercedes' issue with the new regs stem from it [in their opinion] fixing none of f1's current problems.

    It doesn't bring costs down as instead of iterating on the current engine spec, the manufacturers are all having to bin their current design and start from scratch.

    It doesn't solve the problem of overtaking as thanks to aero your car basically becomes an undriveable mess as soon as you get remotely close to another car. IIRC they said to overtake in Mexico you had to be ~1.5s a lap quicker than the car in front, and even then you saw how long it took Vettel and Hamilton to get past the likes of Alonso.
     
  8. fix-the-spade

    fix-the-spade Well-Known Member

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    There's two fast chargers at the Rudding Park Hotel, it's where they run the test drives from and I've seen them!
     
  9. RedFlames

    RedFlames ...is not a Belgian football team

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    *shrug* Tesla's website says otherwise:

     
  10. fix-the-spade

    fix-the-spade Well-Known Member

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    Nice to know that Tesla has truly embraced the world of big business and no longer keeps it's rural site info up to date. Truly giants of industry.
     
  11. RedFlames

    RedFlames ...is not a Belgian football team

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    Well it looks like the new engine regs are very much Ferrari International Assistance, Reanult apparently aren't too happy with them either [and i don't think anyone cares what Honda think].
     
  12. javaman

    javaman May irritate Eyes

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    Like it or not the current problems with electric will have to be solved as adoption will increase leading up to 2020 and increase more rapidly after. Petrol won't disappear over night but Tesla already have a decent range so I don't understand why people outside of cities have an issue apart from price. I wonder if people had the same "concerns" with the model T.

    This is why not only FE but other motorsports are required to push development and drive. The more the government is kept at arms length the better for everyone.
     
  13. Guest-16

    Guest-16 Guest

    Manuf. will certainly take over the series, without doubt.

    Most manuf. come 2020-decade will be all hybrid + EV line-up (but obv there will be many cars on the road already). Come 2030s some countries will start becoming EV-only for new cars.
     
  14. Guest-23315

    Guest-23315 Guest

  15. javaman

    javaman May irritate Eyes

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    I'm gonna guess the idea of the budget cap is the sticking point rather than the engine rules which the "proposed" rules will clearly help Ferrari. High spending has always pulled Ferrari through. Brawn was an exception and even they almost lost it in the end due to not having the cash flow. Keeping costs high is a tool Ferrari use to stop others rising. I can see them opposing the engine rules on the grounds of any change causing money to be spent adapting but I still reckon the biggest outcry is over the budget cap and being presented and wrapped as a Power Unit dispute.
     
  16. The_Crapman

    The_Crapman Don't phone it's just for fun.

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    I hope LM stand their ground against Ferrari. They've had too much say for too long and for the good of the grid and the sport, leverage across the grid needs to be levelled out.
     
  17. Guest-23315

    Guest-23315 Guest

    ^^ While I agree with that, if Ferrari pulled out of F1, the fan drop off would be severe, and they don't want that..

    Bernie even admitted bending many-a-rule to keep them happy because, unfortunately, 'Ferrari are F1'
     
  18. yodasarmpit

    yodasarmpit No longer the other Brett.

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    Formula E is purely a proving ground for the future of F1, F1 will eventually absorb FE and the two will become one and the same.
     
  19. yodasarmpit

    yodasarmpit No longer the other Brett.

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    I'm not 100% convinced there would be a substantial drop off in the fan base other than in Italy, Ferrari are part of the history of F1 but I dont feel they are F1. I honestly believe F1 would survive just fine without them, not my preferred option but it would make zero difference to my viewing habits.
     
  20. javaman

    javaman May irritate Eyes

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    F1 needs Ferrari but the recent shifts in popularity, technical rules and opinions of series like DTM, Endurance/Le Mans, Formula E, Indy Car and even in F1, I'd say Ferrari look more dependent and tied to F1 than previously. They don't really have a presence in a series which as much coverage as F1. They are present in Endurance racing but it isn't LMP1 or LMP2.
    The stampy foot routine worked with Eccleston especially at a time of drastic change and exodus of teams and followers from the sport. Now that change is happening again Ferrari are using the tactic but things are very different. Eccleston is no longer in charge, F1 is even closer to a crossroad in terms of identity, perception, popularity and potential for other Manufacturers to return. Their position of power from a few years ago isn't as strong. Yes they can do damage as F1 is still taking on water. Either they go down with the ship partially clinging to the wheel, They jump ship and land in another smaller boat, jump ship and do nothing or let another captain have some input at the wheel.
    Jumping ship damages the sport as teams are there to race Ferrari. Its a toss up if the sport can be saved and will purely be in Liberty's hands and decisions they make. I can't see any upside to Ferrari leaving F1 for themselves unless they go all in with another series and Endurance racing is the only thing that would be close to F1 in terms of glory and technical ability. A F(errari)1 rival series might be an option but I can see it doomed to fail as it and F1 ultimately inflict fatal blows to each other resulting in another series becoming the pinnacle that keeps both fans and manufacturers happy.

    Uncertainty isn't good for any sport and Ferrari are a big selling for attracting and keeping other teams in F1. With the last few years of change in Motorsport as a whole, them leaving isn't as big a torpedo to as it would of been. DTM is the first victim of FE and Le Mans has adapted. Alonso raised the profile of IndyCar further. F1 needs a vision of what it needs to be, does it please fans, Teams or Ferrari? Some things overlap but its ongoing evolving decisions that need to be made at the right time for the right reasons.
     

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