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Motors Bit-Tech F1 2018 thread - Race 8: France

Discussion in 'General' started by RedFlames, 26 Nov 2017.

  1. Wakka

    Wakka Yo, eat this, ya?

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    If Aston Martin do enter the sport in 2021 (be it an individual, manufacture entry or partnership with RBR) and immediately out-perform them, that could well see McLaren joining Williams in the "teams that used to be champions, but are now backmarkers" group... Which would be sad, but not undeserved given the resources and opportunities they've had.
     
  2. BentAnat

    BentAnat Software Dev

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    Absolutely my feeling as well, @Wakka

    I actually get a bit of a kick out of watching them struggle.
    They had all the opportunites in the world and squandered them.
    They were SO quick to point the finger at Honda, who were'nt great, but as this year shows, the problem wasn't just Honda, was it...
     
  3. yuusou

    yuusou Well-Known Member

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    Honestly with Toro Rosso's budget I think they've come a long way with the Honda engines, much farther than McLaren did. I hope RBR take Honda engines next year and make McLaren eat dust. They definitely used Honda as their scapegoat for their poor performance.
     
  4. Anfield

    Anfield Well-Known Member

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    Also the decline had started before they moved to Honda, zero wins in 2013 - 2014.
     
  5. legoman

    legoman breaker of things

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    Nando is good as gone, they should just take the PR/experience hit an take on Lando for next year, stoffell while very beige is cheap an under contract, then they can bin off work on this seasons car early an focus on the new less aero dependant 2019 car and pile the save money from losing Alonso into that and try an grab some more sponsors.
     
  6. BentAnat

    BentAnat Software Dev

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    Re: McLaren

    Also - famously, the championship in 2010 (i THINK) where they cost Lewis over 100 championship points (and consequentially the championship) by reliability and pitstop problems.

    They last had great cars in 07/08.
    In 09, arguably, Brawn pulled a fast one, and was head and shoulders above the rest. Since then, they started not just falling back on track, but also seemingly falling apart.
     
  7. David

    David RIP Tel

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    McLaren almost certainly used Honda to cover up more than just power issues, but the chassis was reportedly pretty decent, and let's not forget for the three years Honda supplied engines, they supplied lame dogs. I'd be willing to argue that McLaren made things more difficult by refusing to compromise on chassis design to accommodate Honda's difficulties, but Honda famously shun outsiders help in developing their engines too. They aren't some poor little abused waif who deserves better things, they were stubborn and failed to deliver for three years

    Long and short of it: They deserved each other.

    I had already written off this year for McLaren, most teams struggle during the first year with a new PU and if Alonso believed they would be challenging for podiums this year then he's a bigger fool than I thought. If McLaren can't compete next year, then I'll believe they are going the way of Williams, and deservedly so.

    If Honda have found a more accommodating partner in STR, good on them, maybe they'll deliver and RBR will take them on. Personally, I think it's too early for RBR to commit and as with McLaren, 2019 could be the key year for Honda.
     
    Last edited: 14 Jun 2018
  8. legoman

    legoman breaker of things

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    RBR are basically being forced to commit to the Honda PU as Renault want to end the agreement, if they do extend it I can see it being at a large cost to RBR.
    TR and Honda have worked better as said because they are letting Honda have more space the whole "size zero" packing of the engine threw too many problems at Honda right from the start of development they were basically forced to pout a square into a round hole.
    A realistic goal for McLaren this season would have been beat TR and be on par or better than the Renault works team they switched too late to the Renault PU to fully optimise the chassis so it is a compromise, testing showed this when they literally cut out parts from the engine cover to deal with the extra heat the old style Renault KERS produces.

    Odd Rumour Martin Brundles pushing around at the moment, Kimi to retire and Leclerc to replace him, not sure myself on this Kimi is a solid second driver as per how Ferrari like brings home the points etc Leclerc yes hes been impressive but I'd feel another season at Sauber to hone his F1 craft would benefit him, not only that but he is doing good things in Sauber which is very nice to see.
     
  9. stonedsurd

    stonedsurd Is a cackling Yuletide Belgian

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    If Kimi was a good second driver, Ferrari would be leading the WCC, not Merc. As it stands, they're just very lucky Verstappen had such an awful start to the season, or they'd probably be third. In my book, if a team wins WDC but not WCC, they have dropped the ball very badly, and it's usually down to the second guy not bringing home enough points.

    At this stage, a solid half of the field is likely to do a better job in the scarlet car than Kimi.
     
  10. fix-the-spade

    fix-the-spade Well-Known Member

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    In 2012 Button should have (with a capital SHOULD) been driver's champion by a margin of 60 points-ish.
    However.
    In Malaysia they botched his pitstop while he was leading.
    In Bahrain they botched his pit stop, twice, the first time he was leading, the second time overheated the car and it failed.
    In Canada they brought a new chassis which turned out to be faulty. Button noticed immediately on driving it, Mclaren did nothing about it, after the race they found a hairline fracture in it.
    At Silverstone they left it late to do one run in Q1, then sent him out right into the gaggle of backmarker teams, then it rained just to add icing to the cake.
    In Italy the engine blew up, while he was second.

    It was like the three stooges ran the team, Button missed the title by 96 points, Mclaren threw away way more than 96 points over the season. Lewis had two mechanical DNFs that year, the majority of his disasters were wall, Maldonado, Grosjean and (weirdly) Hulkenberg related rather than Mclaren's fault.
     
    Last edited: 16 Jun 2018 at 00:06
  11. javaman

    javaman May irritate Eyes

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    People keep saying this but time and time again Ferrari have expected their "second" driver to outperform their first while constantly being thrown under the bus. Take China where they put Kimi on a 2 stop and he only got back into the race with the safety car. Ferrari have compromised Kimi several times this season one way or another. If Kimi is under performing work with him, rally round him.

    I can only see him getting replaced if a) he quits b) a clearly much better driver emerges ie. Riccardo.
    It's too soon for Leclerc. Many drivers can have a great season only to have a very disappointing follow up, Bottas at Williams he could go missing and first season at Merc wasn't stellar. Grosjean at Lotus also comes to mind. Perez also had moments in his career like his time at McLaren. He needs another season at least.
    Giovanazzi has been getting very high praise at Barcelona and Monaco for work he done back at the factory and don't forget that Kyvatt is a test driver at Ferrari.
     
  12. Anfield

    Anfield Well-Known Member

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    Also don't forget that Ferrari can screw their 2nd driver however much they want with the strategy to cover freak occurrences like rain or safety cars, because where could a Ferrari seat warmer go to?
    Mercedes? To play 2nd fiddle behind Hamilton (so no change from being 2nd fiddle at Ferrari)
    Red Bull? Too much of a gamble if you want to challenge for the WDC
    Rest of the teams? You'll never get to sniff at the podium.

    So the best place for a 2nd Ferrari driver is the 2nd Ferrari and hoping in every race that Vettels engine blows up before the first round of pit stops.
     
  13. stonedsurd

    stonedsurd Is a cackling Yuletide Belgian

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    No one expects a second driver to outperform the first, that just doesn't make sense.

    Your examples from this year aren't Ferrari screwing Kimi, it's splitting strats, because he's a different (and way slower) driver than Vettel. They have to try different stuff with him, the way all teams tend to do across their drivers. It just looks worse at Ferrari because Vettel is so far ahead. No one want to acknowledge it could be Kimi, so "Ferrari screwing him" is easier to come up with.
     
  14. fix-the-spade

    fix-the-spade Well-Known Member

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    Well Alonso's Le Mans debut was going swimmingly for the first fourteen seconds.

    Now his car's still second overall, but the other Toyota is slowly but surely pulling away.
     
  15. RedFlames

    RedFlames ...is not a Belgian football team

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    Nando's gone and won it...
     
  16. fix-the-spade

    fix-the-spade Well-Known Member

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    Must have read my comment and gotten angry.
     
  17. RedFlames

    RedFlames ...is not a Belgian football team

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    Well it was almost impossible for even Toyota to **** it up... but part of me was still conviced that they were going to...
     
  18. yodasarmpit

    yodasarmpit No longer the other Brett.

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    Regardless of Toyota’s dominance, and the rules, Alonso proved his ability to step in and hit the speeds he did. His night shift brought the no 8 car back into contention. Awesome drive from the most rounded current F1 driver.
     
  19. The_Crapman

    The_Crapman Don't phone it's just for fun.

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    I just feel there's always going to be an asterisk against the win, and rightly so. I'd like to see him go back in 2 years with the new formula which will hopefully be more competitive.
     
  20. crazyg1zm0

    crazyg1zm0 Well-Known Member

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    Watched the first 16 hours and it was amazing to enjoy,

    Each time he got into that car he was strong, I was able to watch the start of his night stint and he drove that car so very well. He really did earn that win. There was talk early from the commentators of if its a 1&2 will the 7car be ordered to let the 8 past just to give Nando the win.
     

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