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Motors Bit-Tech F1 thread - 2022 Round 17: Singapore

Discussion in 'General' started by RedFlames, 13 Dec 2020.

  1. fix-the-spade

    fix-the-spade Multimodder

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    Vettel "I'm going to touch Hamilton's wing,"
    RP Crew Chief, "Don't you dare! Very expensive,"
    Vettel, "I'm joking... I'll try the front wing, maybe it's twenty five grand,"

    I do like Seb when he's in laid back troll mode.
     
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  2. Omnislip

    Omnislip Minimodder

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    Merc have really shafted him this year, between a set of dodgy ICUs, that silly mistake at the start of Hungary, and a stupid disqualification like this.

    Kind of nice to see the reversal of Ferrari's incompetence in the Vettel championship fight years!
     
  3. Omnislip

    Omnislip Minimodder

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    Hm, maybe the engine team aren't so bad for Lewis!
     
  4. Krikkit

    Krikkit All glory to the hypnotoad! Super Moderator

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    Somewhat redeemed themselves!

    Great race, I know a lot of haters will say it wasn't that good a drive, but I think overtaking more than the whole field to win the race is rather good.
     
  5. javaman

    javaman May irritate Eyes

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    Is that Glock going slow....no its the entire field.

    Was a very good GP. Verstappens defence reminded me of Rosberg defending in Austria. Letting them race was the right call as there was no collision and noting it if it happened repeatly, however i think it shows Verstappens immaturity when he gets desperate.
    It puts Monza and Silverstone in a light that maybe Verstappen was more to blame for those incidents.

    What did everyone think of a few of the other incidents? Tsnoda, Stroll, Norris come to mind

    Im guessing the new PU allowed Hamilton to turn it up more often. There seemed to be times he had to fall back for several laps.
     
  6. Spraduke

    Spraduke Lurker

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    Norris was just racing incident, ran out of room after a great getaway. Stroll probably should have left a bit more space but could easily go down as racing incident in my books. There was no way Verstappen wasn't going to run him wide and I would expect any championship hopeful to do the same. Good clean but hard racing and nice to see the race decided on track.
     
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  7. The_Crapman

    The_Crapman Don't phone it's just for fun. Lover of bit-tech

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    While I was surprised he didn't get a penalty, the stewards must have seen the telemetry from the car, in particular steering angle and wheel speeds, to determine whether max understeered or didn't steer. The incident at turn 1 with gasley where there wasn't contact but he shoved someone out wide, he was at full lock but understeering like he was on ice, so no penalty was given. The only difference between that incident and the Max-Lewis one is we didn't get to see the cockpit cam from Max.

    There seems to be a lot of conspiracy theories about the FIA and FOM being out for Hamilton, despite him having his fair share of favourable decisions, but a more plausible theory is that FOM have purposefully withheld the footage from being broadcast in order to provoke this kind of coverage. It's guaranteed to have all the reporters, YouTubers and twitterers chirping about it constantly till the next race and beyond.

    Norris-sainz was on Norris, he came across onto sainz, who had tried to give him as much room as he could without bumping into someone else himself.

    Tsunoda stroll I'd probably put down to racing incident. Tsunoda came in late from quite far behind so stroll might not have seen him, but stroll should probably have been aware of him.

    I don't think Mercedes engine issues are due to a defect or underlying problem in design or materials, I think they're just having to rag it to absolute buggery because of how far honda & redbull have come.
     
  8. Omnislip

    Omnislip Minimodder

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    I can't imagine how Toto would have kicked off if the situation in Silverstone was reversed!

    The 10s penalty for that seems dafter to me with every passing race
     
  9. The_Crapman

    The_Crapman Don't phone it's just for fun. Lover of bit-tech

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    In that it was too lenient or too severe?

    I'd imagine Toto's face would still be red now from the anger :hehe:
     
  10. javaman

    javaman May irritate Eyes

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    Pretty much agree with those assessments. Tsonoda probably shouldn't have put himself in that position. It never looked like he would pull it off.

    The DRS gap issue was clear cut. Like blaming mobile speed cameras for you being caught speeding. It feels a lot of things they normally let slide they acted on but tried to be sensible. The stewards done an excellent job overall.

    I think the Verstappen issue was multi layered. If contact had been made it would have been investigated closer.
    I think as well Hamilton pulled out (Verstappen had the corner) so handing him the place was completely wrong. Vertappen also going off I do get the impression he didnt need too and it was a subtle block to stop Hamilton getting back on track. Enough circumstantial evidence that he was carrying too much speed and if it was diblertly done, he didn't really gain an advantage risking a puncture and dirty tyres. Noting it was exactly the right call despite how ridiculous it looked.
     
  11. Omnislip

    Omnislip Minimodder

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    Way too lenient, wasn't it. You shouldn't be able to take out a title rival and still come anywhere close to winning a race. This just incentivises cheating.

    Similar for 5 second penalties for pushing people out onto the gravel (e.g. Albon and Hamilton in Austria). The pushee has their race completely ruined while the pusher is taking a penalty that is at most a couple of positions' lost.
     
  12. yodasarmpit

    yodasarmpit Modder

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    The thing about the Silverstone incident is that Max cut across Lewis, Max effectively punted himself off the track.
     
  13. fix-the-spade

    fix-the-spade Multimodder

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    That event's an odd one. At the time the Stewards punished Hamilton because Verstappen went flying, reasonably enough. After the race when the telemetry showed that Verstappen didn't brake, was never going to make the corner and turned in on Hamilton anyway the stewards did nothing because he'd already crashed out. I'd have handed him a race ban for that one, it was a proper Schumacher move that he walked away from as the victim because it backfired.

    As this season goes on I'm liking Verstappen less and less, he races in a very cynical manner, always ranting about leaving space, until he's the one defending. If it happened rarely I'd give him more benefit of the doubt, but it's every single time he's at a disadvantage.
     
  14. The_Crapman

    The_Crapman Don't phone it's just for fun. Lover of bit-tech

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    I don't know. I don't think it was that lenient. The problem wasn't really with the penalty, but the results of the incident and the race. It was a very close call, definitely more Hamilton's fault than verstappen, but both could have done more to prevent the accident. That the resulting nudge ended Max's race is maybe, not inconsequential, but unfortunate for the recipient. We've seen much harder bumps being written off as racing incidents. I thought a 10 second penalty was about right, I would maybe have made it a stop&go penalty so it couldn't be taken before a pit stop, but that be hindsight.

    Secondary to that was the stewards can't help what happened next, with leclerc having engine problems and was there another safety car or vsc that let Hamilton close up or pit with less time loss? I can't quite remember now. Oh there was landos **** stop that let bottas and Hamilton through I think. On another day that penalty could have had more severe consequences, but Hamilton had the luck with him that day.

    You could say max was incredibly lucky with what happened at Monza. That was a stupid reckless dive, had he just held back till the curva grande, he'd have easily slung past Hamilton who was on cold tyres, but he risked it in a silly move and was lucky to get just a 3 place penalty, which they negated with an engine change and he came second in Russia. So he's had his fair share of luck too.

    Whether the rules need revising and penalties graded on the outcome of the incident, rather than the mechanics and intention, maybe.

    @yodasarmpit @fix-the-spade I would disagree with both of you there. As did the stewards. Max did move away from the racing line and gave Hamilton room. He initially turned in, saw Hamilton and backed off slightly before turning in again. It wasn't enough room for Hamilton as he tried to take the corner at full speed which was always going to result in a collision unless max took himself off track and gave up the place. Of course he didn't brake, because you don't brake for that corner. Braking would instantly lose him the place and possibly land him with a car up his diffuser.
     
    Last edited: 15 Nov 2021
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  15. yodasarmpit

    yodasarmpit Modder

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    Like most people, I've re-watched the incident multiple times and the one thing that is apparent is Max's disregard for other drivers - Lewis was alongside on the inside, Max was fully aware of this however chose to veer sharply to the right in anticipation of Lewis backing out. Lewis did back out, but too late to accommodate Max.

    I respectfully disagree with the stewards on this one.

    Max, whilst a once in a generation talent, appears to be reverting to form after displaying a great deal of maturity in the first half of the season. He seems to have been learning from the Schumacher school of driving - bully and push other drivers in the hope they back out to save a crash.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
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  16. yuusou

    yuusou Multimodder

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    That's just the racing line. Lewis had more space and angle there than he did against LeClerc in the same space.
     
  17. Omnislip

    Omnislip Minimodder

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    I don't think you (not only you, but many fans) can have this both ways - Lewis has steamed up the inside here, miles off the racing line, to the point where he has had to slam on the brakes to try to make the corner (and even then he cannot, and is passed by Leclerc taking the correct line). To avoid an incident Max would have had to have driven WAY off the track at one of the fastest and most sensitive corners on the calendar. Who is the bully? I think they both have had their fair share of these moments through their careers.

    Yes, in the end it would have advantaged Max to not crash, but it doesn't mean Lewis isn't in the wrong for creating a situation that could never have ended well.

    Incidentally, you can see when a move from VB did work from 2019, because he was turning in from a much less acute angle than Lewis was trying to https://imgur.com/a/7ANu8V3 (edit - the screenshot is less useful than I hoped - but you can find the incidents yourself on youtube easily and draw your own conclusions!)
     
    Last edited: 15 Nov 2021
  18. The_Crapman

    The_Crapman Don't phone it's just for fun. Lover of bit-tech

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    I would agree that after looking like he'd turned a page and stopped the spoiled brat routine, he's returned to form and toys rarely stay in the pram for long. It's even more annoying now that before having experienced "humble max".

    The incident, well it's one for the history books and part of one of the most interesting, tense seasons I can remember.
     
  19. David

    David μoʍ ɼouმ qᴉq λon ƨbԍuq ϝʁλᴉuმ ϝo ʁԍɑq ϝμᴉƨ

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    I wonder, does humble Max only appear when things are going his way?

    He really pisses me off, because I think he's an amazing driver but he's a **** and, unsurprisingly, I don't like twats. So, enjoying Max drive the arse off his car is, ever-so-slightly, tempered by the fact that he's a pillock.

    With Hamilton, I have ZERO interest in anything he does or says outside of a car, but I have no doubt he's the greatest driver I've seen in the 40 years I've watched F1 and that's why I like watching him drive.
     
  20. The_Crapman

    The_Crapman Don't phone it's just for fun. Lover of bit-tech

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    Bizzarly, things were going his way less at the start of the season when he wasn't so twatish. From what I recall any way.

    I don't like either of them. I don't like like Max because he has the air of someone who's used someone's mouth as a bidet all is life, I don't like Hamilton for his second coming of jebus routine. I do love what I've been witnessing on the track this year. Action, drama, and some amazing pieces of machinery having the nuts driven off them, and not just by those 2. Lando, Danny ric, sainz, leclerc, brief moments of the Alonso and seb of old, gasley fighting Aston basically on his tod. I can't wait for next year, I pray that the cars can actually follow and we get some proper rubbin.
     

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