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Motors Bit-Tech F1 thread - 2022 Round 17: Singapore

Discussion in 'General' started by RedFlames, 13 Dec 2020.

  1. Krikkit

    Krikkit All glory to the hypnotoad! Super Moderator

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    Just to drag it away from Ham vs Ver, did I miss something at the start between Sainz and Norris? Sainz had no room you say? :naughty:

    [​IMG]
     
  2. Omnislip

    Omnislip Minimodder

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    Super mod doing good super mod things!

    I thought Norris tried to muscle Sainz out of the way, just too much too quickly, and before he was fully past. Reminds me of the ol' Turkey 2010 incident!
     
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  3. Krikkit

    Krikkit All glory to the hypnotoad! Super Moderator

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    I agree Norris made a mistake moving over quite so quickly, but drivers of Sainz and Norris' calibre should be able to move over a few inches to avoid a race-ruining contact like that... Poor driving from both of them in my book.
     
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  4. The_Crapman

    The_Crapman Don't phone it's just for fun. Lover of bit-tech

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    I think he'd said on the radio he was getting squeezed, apparently not :hehe: Not great driving, especially from Norris. Could prove costly in their fight with Ferrari.
     
  5. Spraduke

    Spraduke Lurker

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    Yeah I had it as Norris running out of space, not Sainz. Clearly Norris didn't want to run on the green stuff into the corner (fair) but Sainz didn't obviously want to give space (see above pic). Easy to over analyse these racing incidents post mortem when they happen in a fraction of a second at 150 mph. Most of us would just plow into every other car at those speeds.
     
  6. javaman

    javaman May irritate Eyes

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    The onboard did look tight tho Brazil does feel claustrophobic to me going into the first corner. I think start of a gp your attention is never where it needs to be. Picking out breaking point and coner Apex while keeping an eye on the inside for your team mate or any other threat while monitoring Norris I can see why contact happened
     
  7. javaman

    javaman May irritate Eyes

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    In other news Zhou to race for Alfa Romeo next year. Seems a solid enough driver to come through tho maybe like every young driver not quite fully fleshed out. The wads of cash certainly would have helped
     
  8. yodasarmpit

    yodasarmpit Modder

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    I think Norris misjudged that one a little, thought he was passed but turns out he wasn't. No real harm as he took himself out of the race anyway.
     
  9. fix-the-spade

    fix-the-spade Multimodder

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    Fair enough, no more Italian Jesus, he hasn't exactly been setting the track alight. Zhou doesn't strike me as anything special, he certainly had no answer to Sprogmacher last year, but he's likely to get his 40 license point in one go this year. At least he's not another Mazepin.
     
  10. mrlongbeard

    mrlongbeard Multimodder

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  11. The_Crapman

    The_Crapman Don't phone it's just for fun. Lover of bit-tech

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    Yeh just seen it


    I don't see anything wrong with that. Max can't turn in much because of his shallow entry angle, goes past the apex, more lock, no more turn, full lock, more braking, eventually the car obeys. That might be down to carrying too much speed into the corner, but Hamilton being the experienced savvy driver he is should have expected that and gone for a cutback.
     
  12. javaman

    javaman May irritate Eyes

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    I would love to see the break pressures.
    What I see is Max was fully on the power knowing he was never making that corner. At no point does he release the throttle to make it. Carrying too much speed up the inside initally and hitting the power early his only intention was to hit Lewis and play the victim card that he was entitled to do so should Lewis not bow to King Verstappen.
     
  13. The_Crapman

    The_Crapman Don't phone it's just for fun. Lover of bit-tech

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    Not release the throttle? How do you propose he slowed down? The footage has sound, it's very easy to tell when he's not on the throttle and when he is. Yeh he braked late, of course he has, he's trying to defend the position. The point he picks the throttle up again is well past the apex when the car starts responding, at which point Hamilton is 20ft away in the run off because he too braked late and tried carrying too much speed. Not as much as max, but enough to have to take it way out right as not to lose control.
     
  14. Krazeh

    Krazeh Minimodder

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    Are you suggesting that Hamilton was going to go wide regardless of Max's antics? Because Hamilton's onboard appears to show him having to reduce his turning angle in order to avoid the inside lunge, which then leads to his exit from the track...
     
  15. The_Crapman

    The_Crapman Don't phone it's just for fun. Lover of bit-tech

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    Maybe, but we'll never know. Did he have to take evasive action and go wider because max overcooked it? Yes. Should that be a penalty? No, not if there's a genuine attempt to make the corner. See also the Gasley+Ocon turn 1 incident.
     
  16. Krazeh

    Krazeh Minimodder

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    Was there a genuine attempt to make the corner? He knew he was coming in at a shallower angle so would need to brake more in order to slow enough to make a sufficiently tight turn. He instead chose to brake later than the driver on the outside who would be able to carry more momentum and speed through the turn. And then apply minimal turning angle until he was well past the apex and there was no chance of anyone going round the outside.

    Do you think the outcome should have been different if Hamilton hadn't taken avoiding action and they'd collided? Who would you have penalised (if anyone) in that situation? What about if Hamilton had been clearly in front halfway down the straight, rather than at the start of the corner, and Verstappen had still made the same move?
     
  17. The_Crapman

    The_Crapman Don't phone it's just for fun. Lover of bit-tech

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    If there had been contact it would have been a racing incident, whether either one of them or both went out, still a racing incident. Watch the footage and half or quarter speed. You can see max fighting with the car, he is turning in but the car isn't responding, he winds full lock on and as he slows he get traction, car turns, and then he gets on the accelerator. Absolutely nothing wrong with that at all. If Hamilton had been clear ahead halfway down the straight he'd have been a few of car lengths ahead at the corner and breezed round like he wasn't there. As he ended up doing a couple of laps later.

    We just supposed to say "if they get their nose in front of you that's it, you've lost the place and have to concede it. No real defending allowed."? Sack that shizzle.

    We forgetting Alonso did it for umpteen laps against Hamilton at Hungary and got praised by all for his fantastic defending? Just because it's max people get so upset their precious little Hamilton didn't get his own way. I get it, Max is a spoilt little d##khead, but this is racing. You've got to let people be allowed to try and fend people off like that a little bit, because there is a counter. A nice little cutback would have seen Hamilton through there, but they're both going for it, because they're both bigheaded eejits that want to slap the other round the face with their balls.

    Let's not forget a massively important aspect of this that all the camera angles and telemetry in the world won't tell you - how it felt. These guys drive as much with the sensations coming through the seat and wheel and general g-forces than they do with the eyes, if not more. If you feel the car can't take a bit more turn in because you'll snatch a break and plough into someone's sidepod, you don't turn. That's not a conscious choice, that's hundreds of thousands of hours of muscle memory.
     
  18. Omnislip

    Omnislip Minimodder

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    That's only the case if it's Sir Lewis overtaking you, I've discovered.

    Quick @Krikkit, give us another different race observation! The old one only lasted a day!

    I'm not sure that mirroring Red Bull's approach, for which they were pilloried, is really a good look for Mercedes? Especially since Red Bull will always have the advantage in the pointless whining stakes by combining what happened in GBR and HUN with the devious tactics of Whinger Spice
     
  19. The_Crapman

    The_Crapman Don't phone it's just for fun. Lover of bit-tech

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    Even though I don't think there was anything wrong with it having seen the in car footage, I am surprised the stewards didn't review it. I thought that'd have seen telemetry, but as it was only "noted" and not fully investigated, they wouldn't have looked at the telemetry, according to The Race.

    Wing-gate is set to continue, with more details of redbull's protest coming out. They think the back edge on the lower plane of the rear wing isn't attached, allowing it to flex back at high speed, increasing DRS effect.
     
  20. fix-the-spade

    fix-the-spade Multimodder

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    Horner wants to be careful, the FIA keep making Red Bull make parc ferme alterations to the cars for 'safety reasons,' but I'm sure it could interpreted as 'set up reasons,' very easily.

    Also, Qualifying to day, Sprogmacher to Gio 0.14 seconds, Mazepin to Sprogmacher (wait for it) 2.5 seconds, just make him go home already, it's beyond a meme.
     

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