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Bosses in Gaming

Discussion in 'Gaming' started by Bauul, 25 Feb 2008.

  1. Bauul

    Bauul Sir Bongaminge

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    In the past, bosses were an integral part of gaming. Level Bosses, Sub-Bosses, Mini Bosses, Game Bosses, I always loved a good boss battle, they gave such clarity to a game ending and provided a good test of your newly learned skills. Now-a-days though, it seems to me that bosses have become something of a lost art. Where as everyone can remember the awesome and terrifying bosses of their childhood (the Cyberdemon on the Tower of Babel gave me nightmares), in modern games there seems to be less and less time spent on them, resulting in often sub-par and repetitive boss battles.

    Although developers seem not to care much about bosses any more, they still pop up in games all the time. Personally, I say either get rid of them completely and have a boss-situation (like the striders at the end of HL2 Ep 2) or do them properly (Serious Sam), but don't do them half-heartedly. Nothing is worse than a lame boss ending to spoil a game.

    That said, simply shooting a boss over and over till it dies whilst avoiding return fire are considered simplistic these days, but likewise I think puzzle based boss battles just aren't as fun (Shub-Niggarath anyone?). The trick I think is to have a balance between problem solving ability, dexterity and straight forward skill on the game, whilst providing an extremely atmospheric and memorable encounter. There are few games these days that seem to achieve all that. Ugh-Zan III (Serious Sam) ticked all those boxes, but compared to the screen filling super-bosses of the old 16bit platformers and side-scrolling shooters modern game bosses just don't seem to have the same wow factor they used to. Even in Quake 4, with the Network Guardian, the brilliant build up to the final fight with it was all spoiled by the actual boss fight being quite lacklustre.

    Personally I believe bosses deserve a bit of a renaissance, and I'm looking forward to the game that actually manages to put together a proper heart-stopping encounter to finish the game off, though to be honest I'm not holding my breath for anything soon.

    Thoughts?
     
  2. naokaji

    naokaji whatever

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    i dont mind if they make bossfights harder, i can't remember making it to any of them in any game anyways....
     
  3. DaveVader

    DaveVader Fast Action Response Team

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    I remember good old stuff, the most recent game I completed with a boss battle at the end was Portal.
    For one thing, I wasn't expecting anything like what Portal delivered, I can see why people like it so much. The boss battle was kind of half arsed though, it took me two attempts but it should take you 200 attempts with a difficult boss if you ask me.
    I can see where you are coming from, I haven't completed a game in so long that has had a boss (not too many enthrall me at the moment)
     
  4. mutznutz

    mutznutz Cos Ive got a beard u label me evil

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    A very simple example of a good boss in my opinion is the last boss in the Sonic games Dr Robotnic, because you'd have to kick his ass over and over in so many different styles in order to win

    OMG that's the second time I've mentioned the Mega Drive game today ... so sad I am
     
  5. antiHero

    antiHero ReliXmas time!

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    I know what you mean and most games i played in the last time didnt really have a good boss fight except God of War!
    The boss fights there are wicked and when i say wicked i mean super duper hammertime! When i started playing GoW on hard it took me 7 tries for the first boss as it is a hard puzzle to get him killed and the same is for almost all bosses in 1 and 2.
    Nr 3 will probably be the reason for me to buy the PS3 couse the game is just so god damn good
     
  6. steveo_mcg

    steveo_mcg What's a Dremel?

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    The boss battles in the first Soul Reaver game were brilliant, you had to use the environment and it took a fair amount of time (or web browsing) to work out what you were meant to do.
     
  7. CardJoe

    CardJoe Freelance Journalist

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    I actually have a column coming up which plays on this and which at one point talks about you and Doom :p

    For me, I'm not too fussed about whether there is a boss or not. I prefer the game to feel like it has gone somewhere. I want it to have a beggining, middle and end - and when I reach that end, I want it to feel satisfying. That doesn't mean a big boss, it just means a logical obstacle for the player to overcome. Trying to force that into the boss template can ruin many games.

    Take two similar games for example - Beyond Good and Evil and Prince of Persia: Sands of Time. Third person action adventures both where the player plunges through a heavily story-driven experience, ussually with an NPC always with them. These games focus on using the characters to bring players through. In POP the Prince and Farah build a relationship over the course of the game, so when you reach the end and are fighting to protect her from the Vizier, you feel compelled to help. At this point the Vizier is already defeated and is just an old, sad man. Defeating him is easy - a matter of moments - and takes only three hits. But when it's over you feel satisfied because he was the logical enemy to face at the end of the game, it brings the story to a close and it is fitting with the game world and the way his character has been portrayed all the way through.

    In short, you don't need the Vizier to suddenly have magic guns burst out of his arms in the middle of the fight. You want to fight him because of who he is, so all the designers need to do his make sure you know who he is.

    In Beyond Good and Evil though the boss is more cutout. The game has pulled Jade and Double H through a huge ordeal and they've witnessed children massacred. Players are deliberately made to built up strong ties to characters like Pey'j and, when Pey'j is taken away, you again feel compelled to fight the Domz Priest.

    The problem with BG+E though is that the Domz priest isn't built up as the bad guy and isn't really revealed. When you face him he has no character to pull from and no established reason for you to hate him especially. As such, the designers make him more interesting by making him more challenging and making him reverse your controls. Unfortunately, that also makes him a pain in the ass to fight, hugely breaking from the logic of the game and makes him feel horribly unfair.

    The lesson? All games need a close, but not all games need a boss. Having games like the Domz Priest is fine - but it has to be in a game where it is fitting. Transplant the same enemy into Serious Sam 2 and he's suddenly fantastic - you have a bad guy who uses a cool control reversing attack that makes him challenging to fight! He's awesome! He's Big!

    On the other hand, the Vizier wouldn't fit with Serious Sam. An old man that takes three hits to kill? Pfft.

    For games to be satisfying they need to be consistent with the game themes and design. Games that sell on challenge do well to have bosses. Games that sell on story do well to have finales. It's just that with 'Storytelling' being such an industry buzzword that the we see fewer games in the former category.
     
  8. Guest-16

    Guest-16 Guest

    Just don't play Conan then, Ben.

    Most. Frustrating. Boss. Fights. Ever.
     
  9. Bungle

    Bungle Rainbow Warrior

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    When I read that I immediately thought of Return to castle wolfenstein. Great game let down by the end boss. Your right of course, either do a proper Boss or leave them out of it. Nothings worse then defeating a sheep in wolfs clothing.:D
     
  10. Agent_M

    Agent_M Minimodder

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    it seems like its a real problem with games that are set up as having sequels from the start. like crysis. the last boss was just boring. i was expecting an epic battle when it surfaces next to the ship bit it just sits there and lets you shoot it...

    devil may cry 4 looks to have some good boss battles in it. my housemate has been playing it recently, and the bosses are pretty cool and have that wow effect for the most part.
     
  11. Jamie

    Jamie ex-Bit-Tech code junkie

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    You're playing the wrong games.
     
  12. kenco_uk

    kenco_uk I unsuccessfully then tried again

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    I think the balance of difficulty in the original Tomb Raider got it about right. The boss fights did (well, for me, anyway) take a few goes to nail, but ended with a lungful of phew and perhaps a 'crikey' or 'blummin ell' once knocked off.
     
  13. CardJoe

    CardJoe Freelance Journalist

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    Tomb Raider boss fights? I hate them. Now I hate you too :p
     
  14. Hiren

    Hiren mind control Moderator

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    +1
     
  15. Bauul

    Bauul Sir Bongaminge

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    You're absolutely right, games don't require bosses, and placing generic 'big bad guy' at the end of a game like Sands of Time probably wouldn't work, but what I would say is that most games do require at least a boss-like-situation. Whether it's a massive multi-armed 300 year old demon thing, an old man or a bunch of striders, games need good endings. Maybe the lack of quality boss fights in modern games is more indicative of designers struggling to know how to finish games properly. Even if they're hoping for a sequel, there's no excuse for not providing a satisfying ending to a game.

    In truth, it's very difficult to have a player finish a game and be satisfied with what they've done. Ordinarily, at least I find, I either think "at last, I was getting bored", or I think "no, don't end now!” BioShock was a perfect example of the latter, the final boss just simply didn't justify the build up to it, I wanted something far more substantial to finish the game with. I didn't care whether it was a fight, a chase, a timed-puzzle, all I wanted was for me to go 'ahhh' and flop back in my chair feeling right with the world. I must admit HL Ep 2 did this perfectly, given the limitations of a cliff hanger ending, but I am really really worried they're simply not going to be able to finish it properly given the build up.

    I guess providing a good ending is something that all fictional mediums can struggle with. In a game, the journey is arguably more important than the ending, as the ending is just one tiny bit of the process of playing the game. This is true of other mediums as well. In Monty Python's Flying Circus, the Pythons admitted they often struggled to find a suitable ending for their sketches, so would often resort to a 10 tonne weight falling on the protagonist. Indeed, a classic 'punch line' was often absent from Python sketches. Another would be Stephen King's Dark Tower series. Whilst I admit I actually never finished it (I got part way through Wolves of the Calla and just... stopped), IIRC the ending as Joe described it to me, there is no real ending, the story just starts again. King actually leaves a note explaining the point of the story is the journey, not the ending.

    I'd imagine many games designers struggle with the same thing. A great concept for a gameplay mechanism may result in a great game, but weaving a story (let alone a good ending) into it as well must be quite difficult. The problem is that many designers bottle it and resort to stereotypical boss battles, believing simply including a boss makes a good ending. Designers need to realise that traditional boss battles only suit certain games, and if you're going to use one, put the effort in that it requires, don't just throw in a hard bad-guy and hope for the best. I think game endings is something that's been overlooked in design over the years, but I think this is something so ingrained into the design process that it might take an extremely long time to rectify itself.
     
    Last edited: 25 Feb 2008
  16. mushky

    mushky gimme snails

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    Ninja Gaiden had some excellent bosses. That's how I found out it's very very hard to snap a DVD.
     
  17. Guest-16

    Guest-16 Guest

    Only because they are insanely large and multi coloured. they aren't exactly hard you just mash "Y" and "A". I wouldn't class it as good.

    Hahahaha Yea I totally agree, Chris, I gave up on Ninja Gaiden about 1/3rd of the way through. The FIRST boss was ****ing difficult enough :|
     
  18. Firehed

    Firehed Why not? I own a domain to match.

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    Indiana Jones didn't have much of a boss fight, though it had a reasonably well-thought-out and appropriate logic puzzle.
    /edit-linking to avatars fails epically
     
  19. Bauul

    Bauul Sir Bongaminge

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    I loved the mini-ish-boss in the caves on Crete in Indiana Jones. You could either have a long drawn out fist fight with him (Fritz was his name IIRC), or you could drop a stalactite on his head. Genius.
     
  20. Blademrk

    Blademrk Why so serious?

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    My brother just bought (another) boxed copy of that (Indy, fate of Atlants) along with Secret of Monkey Island, Flight of the Amazon Queen and Simon the Sorcerer (I'm sure I've already bought this for him before) yesterday from somewhere. Now I need to figure out how to get SCUMM VM working with them for him to play them.
     

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