1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

News Bradley Manning guilty of most charges but cleared of 'aiding the enemy'

Discussion in 'Article Discussion' started by Meanmotion, 30 Jul 2013.

  1. Meanmotion

    Meanmotion bleh Moderator

    Joined:
    16 Nov 2003
    Posts:
    1,650
    Likes Received:
    12
    While I personally do disagree strongly with you I have no issue with you discussing the topic and would be happy for you to start a thread in the general discussion forum (assuming things remains civilised). However, this is a thread about the article to which it links. The in-depth discussion of the truth or not of the holocaust is just a little too far off topic.
     
  2. miller

    miller New Member

    Joined:
    10 Jun 2013
    Posts:
    175
    Likes Received:
    20
    So what, he wouldn't be the first person wrongly prosecuted because a government wanted them prosecuted, especially when the government considers the offenses an act of treason and they know that a lot of Americans will agree with them, that's why I am surprised he was not prosecuted for aiding the enemy, because the US government tried to prosecute him on that count and failed.

    As for the definition of strategy and tactics I think any government can make those up as they wish in the name of national security.
    Besides, strategy and tactics are not the only info that may give terrorists an advantage in fact I would say the release of info that shows the infidel committing war crimes is of a much higher value to the terrorist as it is the foundation and justification for the acts of terror they commit.

    I understand the difference perfectly well, so sorry if I didn't explain it better, I'm probably one of those "stupid" people that you like to so often remind us the world is full of.
     
  3. Nexxo

    Nexxo * Prefab Sprout – The King of Rock 'n' Roll

    Joined:
    23 Oct 2001
    Posts:
    34,101
    Likes Received:
    1,609
    Ah, I get you (I'm a fellow stupid human being).

    I suspect that the government simply could not push 'aiding the enemy' through. Manning has many supporters also in the US and there are international political repercussions as well (he also holds UK nationality, for instance). The US is not flavour of the month in the rest of the world since PRISM and it is learning the hard way that just throwing your weight around does not always work.
     
  4. Corky42

    Corky42 Where's walle?

    Joined:
    30 Oct 2012
    Posts:
    9,648
    Likes Received:
    386
    Whistle blowers can be a good thing often they bring unacceptable behavior to light, but the way Manning divulged the information was rash. There are laws in place to protect whistle blowers in the military so why he didn't he follow procedures ?
     
  5. VipersGratitude

    VipersGratitude Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    4 Mar 2008
    Posts:
    3,243
    Likes Received:
    597
    Have you actually read the court transcripts, such as David Coombs main argument that his client was selective in not releasing documents that would have had intelligence value to the enemy?

    The judge agreed that he was, indeed, selective, and the verdict on that charge - of aiding the enemy - was 'Not Guilty'. Happy reading - https://pressfreedomfoundation.org/bradley-manning-transcripts

    So the justification for covering up war crimes is that they may possibly perpetuate other war crimes? What about the war crimes that would have perpetuated by not releasing the evidence? Are some war crimes more equal than others?
     
    Last edited: 31 Jul 2013
  6. Harlequin

    Harlequin Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    4 Jun 2004
    Posts:
    7,071
    Likes Received:
    179
    war is about missions , objectives and body counts - not the soft and sweet movie versions.


    edit:


    look at what the Christians did to Jerusalem when they stormed the city....
     
  7. Stanley Tweedle

    Stanley Tweedle NO VR NO PLAY

    Joined:
    3 Apr 2013
    Posts:
    1,626
    Likes Received:
    28
    Agree. But as you can see from the mix of opinions... some are conditioned to accept whatever labels the corrupt governments/military choose to create.

    People can be conformist sheep through fear or through ignorance/stupidity.

    It's all very George Orwell and those buying the official label of "traitor" and "anti-american" are just licking the ass of big brother.

    A crime against criminals is no crime at all.
     
    VipersGratitude likes this.
  8. Corky42

    Corky42 Where's walle?

    Joined:
    30 Oct 2012
    Posts:
    9,648
    Likes Received:
    386
    Yes it is.
     
  9. t5kcannon

    t5kcannon Member

    Joined:
    7 Jan 2011
    Posts:
    140
    Likes Received:
    2
    Excellent post. Manning acted in a amazingly reckless way. He deserves a long time inside.
     
  10. John_T

    John_T Member

    Joined:
    3 Aug 2009
    Posts:
    532
    Likes Received:
    21
    xrain already answered this point very well: Trying to compare the lifting of three quarters of a million government and military documents to lifting the hardware section of a computer website is beyond daft. Like xrain said, there's not going to be a folder that says 'human rights abuses'. By sheer volume of what he took he was statistically bound to unearth wrongdoing, that doesn't make what he did (or the way he did it) right.
     
  11. John_T

    John_T Member

    Joined:
    3 Aug 2009
    Posts:
    532
    Likes Received:
    21
    I'll answer that with a post that was put up before you and you didn't seem to understand:

    I, and the vast majority of people, have no problem with whistler blowers. Whistler blowers are often a very, very good thing. That's why our 'corrupt governments' have put laws in place to protect them. But Bradley Manning did not so much blow a whistle as throw the entire philharmonic orchestra out of the 50th floor window. And not just the American philharmonic orchestra, but the instruments of a couple of hundred other nations orchestras as well.

    There was almost no selectivity to what he did - he was literally physically incapable of knowing the contents or nature of the vast majority of what he was releasing. That, by default, means he was also incapable of knowing the damages his actions might have, or indeed who might be damaged.

    That is not whistle blowing, that is something else.
     
    Last edited: 31 Jul 2013
  12. Stanley Tweedle

    Stanley Tweedle NO VR NO PLAY

    Joined:
    3 Apr 2013
    Posts:
    1,626
    Likes Received:
    28
    Well if the system wasn't corrupt in the first place it wouldn't have been a problem.

    We live in a world of lies and conspiracy.

    I actually don't give a **** the method bradley manning chose to reveal the lies and deception.
     
  13. RichCreedy

    RichCreedy Hey What Who

    Joined:
    24 Apr 2009
    Posts:
    4,699
    Likes Received:
    172
    as has been said already, there are protections for whistle-blowers, and he should have followed the procedures for that. no way should he have released 750000 documents into the public domain, he won't have read them all, and could have caused many problems, including risking the lives of any named individuals in the documents. classified material is just that, classified, not for general consumption.
     
  14. Stanley Tweedle

    Stanley Tweedle NO VR NO PLAY

    Joined:
    3 Apr 2013
    Posts:
    1,626
    Likes Received:
    28
    I guess he should have requested a whistle blower document and gone to the correct government department. The one marked "non-corrupt government officials for whistle blowing affairs"

    They probably even have such a department in the military.

    :)
     
  15. VipersGratitude

    VipersGratitude Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    4 Mar 2008
    Posts:
    3,243
    Likes Received:
    597
    Busy day today...but I'm sure Nexxo wouldn't mind explaining how Philip Zimbardo's work pertains to both the issue at hand, and some of the arguments presented in this thread
     
  16. Nexxo

    Nexxo * Prefab Sprout – The King of Rock 'n' Roll

    Joined:
    23 Oct 2001
    Posts:
    34,101
    Likes Received:
    1,609
    This was a disaster of the military's own making, sorry. First off, their security measures for classified data suck. There is almost no encryption, no different layers of access to different materials. Manning could just download stuff on a memory stick and walk out.

    Second, it was quite obvious for a long time that Manning had mental health issues going on and struggled with the nature of the job. He was nonetheless put into this morally ambiguous situation becausr his superiors clearly did not recognise the moral ambiguity of the situation.

    Third, there is no real protection for whistleblowers. It's all lip service. The fate of whistleblowers shows us time and again that they get screwed.

    Vipersgratitude makes a good point. I'll come back to it later (busy now).
     
  17. Corky42

    Corky42 Where's walle?

    Joined:
    30 Oct 2012
    Posts:
    9,648
    Likes Received:
    386
    Whistle blowers may well get screwed, but there are procedures that he should have at least attempted before resorting to releasing the information into the public domain.

    If he didn't get any results from the inspector general or any of the members of congress, then maybe he could have just said to hell with the consequences and released this information. Without giving the relevant authorities and/or process to take its course he didn't give the organisation a chance to address these issues without compromising security.
     
  18. kent thomsen

    kent thomsen New Member

    Joined:
    9 Jul 2011
    Posts:
    38
    Likes Received:
    0
    Erhmm, why is this on Bit-tech...? :)
     
  19. MightyBenihana

    MightyBenihana Do or do not, there is no try

    Joined:
    8 Sep 2011
    Posts:
    1,320
    Likes Received:
    51
    @John T - This is just false, he didn't just release all the information into the wind, it was checked to make sure it did not hold information that could endanger the lives of undercover aagents and such but that is not the story the mainstream media is telling.

    Also Senator Diane Feinstein released information that was considered Top Secret, A higher level than anything Manning released. This was also done by a General whose name escapes me right now but when I find it I will amend this.

    Why are these people not in jail, in solitude, stripped naked and kept awake for hours on end? Leaks are OK when the US governement wants things leaked, things that make them look good, but if you are a whistleblower then god help you. It is sad to say but if you do even the tiniest bit of research you will quickly see that Obama is even worse on whistleblowers and civil liberties than Bush was. And Bush was horrible.

    There are very few places you can get unbiased political news nowadays and none of those places are on your television or printed media.

    I hate to do a Nazi or Stalinist analogy but I think in this case it is required. When people read history books about those two regimes they often think or say, "Oh my God how could people belive what they were being told and do such things, I would never have gone along with it". Well, propoganda is far more advanced now and we are going along with a similar regimes but this time it is a regimes of corporate power over people and governements

    This may come off as a bit conspiritorial but if you want to see for yourself just follow the money.
     
  20. law99

    law99 Custom User Title

    Joined:
    24 Sep 2009
    Posts:
    2,382
    Likes Received:
    59
    Although I understand your point of view: it seems that without the leaks, no one would ever have listened to these concerns.

    He must now face the consequences of the actions he took in the face of a moral dilemma. The ramifications of which will be, in 25, 50 or 100 years time, taught to children in Schools and studied by historians. Which side do you think they will err on?

    Edit: I think looking back these cases will be huge social dilemmas. I can't help but think that, in the end, history will favour the actions of Manning.
     
    Last edited: 31 Jul 2013
Tags: Add Tags

Share This Page