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Bush wants marriage reserved for heterosexuals

Discussion in 'Serious' started by stewe151, 31 Jul 2003.

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  1. :: kna ::

    :: kna :: POCOYO! Moderator

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    Nail, meet head. And neither should it.. because it (a civil wedding) *isn't* a religious ceremony. In the same way you feel that it's not a proper wedding unless it includes god in it, conversely I feel that having to include god in my wedding is pointless and grossly inappropriate.

    Anyway, my rants aside and getting back on topic. Gays should have the right to have a civil wedding should they choose.

    No-one (hopefully) is arguing that religious ceremonys are inappropriate for gay people. It is written into nearly every religions scriptures that homosexuality is 'immoral' and there's no way they're going to let that change.

    However whilst clearly it *is* against their religion, marriage is now *no longer* reserved for those who are religious and gay people should have the right to have a civil wedding which is nothing to do with god, George Bush or as raised above, the pope.

    I'm going to Hell (apparently) along with gay people and all the other sinners, and yet religious heads of state have been allowing civil weddings for years. I had no religious undercurrent to my wedding, yet no-one has moved to ban civil weddings between heterosexual couples.. what makes gay people so different? We're both sinners, so why should we not get the same *restrictions* of our rights?
     
  2. Sid

    Sid Banned

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    But you see my post answered that. Because it says in the bible that homosexuality is wrong, THAT is why people think religion and homosexuality can't mix. I'd like to point out the word "think". I'm not saying that they don't.

    Friendly advise please, try to watch out for key words in a paragraph, getting them wrong can completely change the meaning of something. Not trying to insult you here, it's just frustrating when someone keeps picking you up wrong.
     
  3. Sid

    Sid Banned

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    God was simply testing Abraham to see whether his love for God was stronger than his love for his son. He wasn't going to let Abraham kill Isaac.

    Yes, the bible accepts slavery. It doesn't say it's right, although it doesn't say it was wrong either. I think at the time slavery was something that was perhaps necessary.
     
  4. Deviate

    Deviate What's a Dremel?

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    Ok...totally not the topic at hand, but actually God was testing Abraham's faith more than his love. If you will notice, as Abraham walked up the mountain with Isaac, he told his servants, "the boy and I are going up, we will be back." (obviously that is paraphrased) Clearly he always had faith that even if he killed Isaac, God would give him back.

    But that's not the topic at hand....and the topic has always been a very interesting discussion! Many good points have been made on both sides.

    Now a question, is it the idea of saying a homosexual couple can get "married" or that they can have the benefits of a contractual agreement generally referred to as marriage? And are there always benefits to being married?

    I get a tax "benefit" because I am married and my wife doesn't work (well she does...just as a home-maker...which is work!!). So I get to take a tax break because she is a "dependent". But if we were not married...and the same circumstances existed, she could actually get government aid (wellfare) and probably we would have more money between us...without really losing anything tax related. It's possible. I just want to know what the benefit is to a homosexual marriage.

    I don't want to be patronising or rude or whatever, but if this was the case and things were reversed, the population of the world would have a hard time growing, since homosexual relationships do not lend themselves to procreation. So gaining new believers in those religions would probably be a problem. Just saying...

    Oh...and also on the subject of a religion being superior to another.... it's very naive to ask "what makes your religion superior to mine". If you really believe and follow a religion you must believe that it is superior to all others or else why would you follow that religion and not the one you thought was superior? :eyebrow:
     
  5. Ubermich

    Ubermich He did it!

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    This seems to be the general thinking of everyone who is anti-gay marriage... The thing that I don't understand is how you can be married and still suggest that marriage is done for financial or other gain... You said yourself you would probably be wealthier if you weren't married, so why are you married? What is the benefit to your marriage?


    I think the original post was to open your mind, not see how closed it could be. Try putting yourself in someone else's shoes for thirty seconds. You're not you, you're... hell... you're Richard Simmons. And you've fallen madly in love with another man... Now you're not allowed to marry him.

    If you want to translate it, as has been attempted by many so far, only to recieve "what's the benefit of gay marriage?" the paragraph above would be read:
    You're you, and you've fallen madly in love with a woman...
    Now you're not allowed to marry her.
    How would you feel if the government had told you that you couldn't marry your wife?

    It's wrong to ask such a thing, because all it's doing is trying to pick a fight... But just because you believe something doesn't neccessarily mean you think it's superior to other religions. Believe it or not, it IS possible to respect people who are different :rolleyes:
     
  6. Guest-6374

    Guest-6374 Guest

    Not sure if it's been mentioned yet, but Canada has recently legalized same-sex marriages in BC and Ontario, and possibly other provinces. There is, however, one caveat; the church has the right to refuse to marry same-sex couples if it goes against their belief system.

    Now the entire church system is split between those supporting same-sex marriage and those condoning it. I support it, for whatever that's worth, but it's turning into an interesting set of arguments up here.
     
  7. :: kna ::

    :: kna :: POCOYO! Moderator

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    Do you only have church weddings in Canada? Or is the implication that civil weddings are allowed and the issue is only if they want a religious one?
     
  8. Loz

    Loz Blah Blah

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    A lot of people seem to be saying "It doesn't matter as there's no benefit to same-sex marriage". Even if that were the case (I really don't think it is), who are you to deny them it?
     
  9. MadSkunkBurner

    MadSkunkBurner What's a Dremel?

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    :clap:

    You hit the nail on the head Sid.

    Freeyourmind - in regard to your comment about Christians not being able to support homosexuality (the edit on your post above):

    The christian religion certainly does not SUPPORT homosexuality - if you think so then your views are, may I suggest, a little jaded. The christian religion is more about TOLERANCE. Unfortunately this makes a grey area which then turns something that is CLEARLY biblically wrong in to support. If you truly are a christian church goer then you must also understand that the devil is also present in this world and would love you to think the way you do - perhaps you ought to bear this in mind? Its amazing what people can justify in their own mind with a little help from 'him downstairs'.

    I really dont want to turn this thread in to a bible thumping session but find it very difficult to button my lip when people who claim to be Christians have such fundamentally flawed interpretations of the bible.

    So, as previosly stated - may I respectfully suggest that you go back and have another look through the good book ;)
     
  10. freeyourmind212

    freeyourmind212 What's a Dremel?

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    I'm sorry if I made it seem like I wanted to know why people wrongly thought homosexuality and religion couldn't mix. I wanted to hear a legitimate reason. I am a Christian and I do not think homosexuals are sinners. And I am not alone in that. I know at least one congregation that shares my beliefs. I know a homosexual couple who received 'a blessing' on their 'common law union' at my church. The issue isn't about religious marriages vs. civil marriages.

    I meant legally. Sorry if that wasn't clear.

    Please listen to me.
    I am a Lutheran, a Christian. I could recite a creed for you if you wanted, but we'll skip that part. I see NOTHING wrong with homosexuality, and I believe that nothing should be decided because of sexuality. I do not believe that homosexuality is a sin.
    Listen to what you're saying! You are telling me that my beliefs are wrong. I probably disagree with some things you believe, but do I tell you they are wrong?

    You have different beliefs than me! Deal with it. Please do not try to tell me that I am wrong, like I am giving the wrong answer to a math problem. I believe what I believe.
     
  11. Ubermich

    Ubermich He did it!

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    bEE informed me that gays can marry in Canada... but they can't get a divorce... I think that idea is the winner, folks.
     
  12. stewe151

    stewe151 Stress Personified

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    As do I. I think divorce should be illegal except under extreme circumstances (abusive spouse, etc.)
     
  13. Shadowspawn

    Shadowspawn Another hated American.

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    I am Christian.

    So my viewpoint and belief about homosexuality should be clear.

    I am a father of three and husband of one for 11 years.

    So my viewpoint and belief about homosexuality should be clear.

    I am a human being. I am male. I have male equipment. My wife is female. She has female equipment. Our equipment works together to create other human beings.

    Male equipment does not work with other male equipment. Female equipment does not work with other female equipment.

    My viewpoint and belief about homosexuality should be clear.

    Its a sickness. It needs to be cured. There really isn't anything too difficult here boys and girls. Whether you believe in a God and pursue the subject that way, or if you believe in evolution, either way 1 and 1 does not equal 1.:nono:

    I voted for Bush. I will vote for Bush again. YAY! Go Bush. :clap: :lol:
     
  14. MadSkunkBurner

    MadSkunkBurner What's a Dremel?

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    You believe what you believe and thats all fine by me.

    However - if you post your beliefs in a forum then I, or anybody else for that matter, should feel free to tell you that you are wrong - thats the whole idea of a...forum ... :eyebrow:

    I have not commented at ANY point what my beliefs are on this matter (have I?) - I have just been stating what is BIBLICALLY correct. You are not giving the wrong answer to a math question - you are stating beliefs that, as a Christian, are not scripturally sound.

    I was a member of the church well over 10 years ago and am now not religiously inclined in any way (you can probably deduce this from my 'nick'). This was mainly due to people being hippocritical - one element of which was that people turn scripture and the ways of the church to their own ends and believe whatever they want to.

    It is little wonder that people scoff at the church these days with christians making up their own rules as to what is and what is not acceptable. If you claim to be a christian then you should live your life by what is says in the bible - not your own beliefs/ideas.

    As far as I am concerned gay people can do what the hell they like as long as they dont bother me. As Shadowspawn quite rightly says though - if we were meant to be in same sex relationships then we would have been 'designed' that way - which we are clearly not...
     
  15. Hex

    Hex Paul?! Super Moderator

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    NO! That is so not the "idea of a forum". Have you people never heard of respecting other's beliefs/opinions/lifestyles? You don't just go around telling people their beliefs are wrong and yours are right. That is just pathetic. :nono: There is no way that either party can PROVE theirs are right so you could equally be right... or both equally be wrong.

    I hope this thread closes soon as I am fast going off some people I thought I got on with OK. :grr:
     
  16. samuelellis

    samuelellis What's a Dremel?

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    ditto


    my views if a same sex couple want to have a civil marage why stop them, its notreligious or anything so how can it offend anyone who belives in a religion


    end of the day, what people do behind closed doors is there own business & if it makes them hapy & is not illegal wheres the harm
     
  17. Fly

    Fly inter arma silent leges

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    OK guys and girls, this is as far as I am prepared to see this thread go. We are pretty much going round in circles and as I see it we are only veering off subject to insult people's beliefs of sexuality. The issue was same sex mariages, the discussion is not.

    Closing.

    Have a nice day.
     
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