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News Canonical to halve Ubuntu support lifetime

Discussion in 'Article Discussion' started by Gareth Halfacree, 20 Mar 2013.

  1. Phil Rhodes

    Phil Rhodes Hypernobber

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    The Ubuntu download page is hilarious. More or less the first bit of guidance talks about "using UEFI firmware" and links to a page which states:

    This is on the user-oriented download pages which may be the first exposure anyone gets to the product.

    You just don't get it, Linux.

    You don't get it, do you?
     
  2. Gareth Halfacree

    Gareth Halfacree WIIGII! Lover of bit-tech Administrator Super Moderator Moderator

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    "More or less the first?" There's a reason you said "more or less," isn't there, Phil? Because the section you've quoted half of actually reads:
    There's even a picture of the Windows 8 logo, just in case you don't know what it looks like. Are you honestly telling me that someone who wants to try Linux wouldn't understand the instruction that they should choose the 64-bit version if their computer has a Windows 8 logo?

    Let's see what the Microsoft download page says about it, shall we? Oh, wait. There isn't one. You can buy it, but be warned: Microsoft has hidden this little message at the bottom of the page.
    Yes, that's so much clearer than Canonical's Ubuntu download page, isn't it?

    Any other strawmen you'd like demolishing, Phil? Hmm?
     
  3. Phil Rhodes

    Phil Rhodes Hypernobber

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    That's exactly, precisely the point I'm trying to make.

    They're aiming it at "someone who wants to try Linux", which is a sort of person that they're already assuming is reasonably technical. It's a vicious circle. You would be forgiven for thinking that Linux is doing absolutely everything it can to keep its userbase limited to technical people. It's insane. And you cannot reasonably do that, and then in the next breath claim that Linux is easy to use, suitable for the average desktop computer, and in general ready for the bigtime.

    Frankly, if they're having to ask questions which require you to know what UEFI is and what "firmware" means, I'd say they haven't actually, er, finished writing their operating system yet. But if you do have to ask that question, just asking a potential layperson whether they're using a PC with UEFI firmware is obviously (very, very obviously) not the way to do it.

    P
     
  4. faugusztin

    faugusztin I *am* the guy with two left hands

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    That is why they said the "Windows 8 logo". And there is no software solution for a problem when you simply cannot have some settings enabled (UEFI Secure Boot) for a software released before such hardware became commonplace. Once Ubuntu releases a version with the required Microsoft signatures, they won't have to worry about Secure Boot. But for now, there is no solution.

    I guess a Windows 7 way is much better. Not telling you that if you want to install Windows 7 on a Windows 8 computer with Secure boot enabled, you have to disable it. Or as you would say, Microsoft haven't actually, er, finished writing their Windows 7 operating system yet.
     
  5. Gareth Halfacree

    Gareth Halfacree WIIGII! Lover of bit-tech Administrator Super Moderator Moderator

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    They should aim at people who *don't* want to try Linux, perhaps? Wouldn't that be rather like Angus Steakhouse aiming at vegans?
     
  6. SexyHyde

    SexyHyde Minimodder

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    That's the thing though, to try Linux you have to install it. The reason it's more complex than before? Microsoft making it more complex to try a different OS.

    I'm sure when I downloaded Ubuntu it had the LTS version in a box on the right hand side along side the current release. But I was not really paying attention if I'm honest. I know I managed to download, install and get steam running and play tf2 without any trouble. Which impressed me greatly. Just got to finish my windows games then it'll be a permanent switch. Linux upgrades are fine once you set up your files up. If your going to try Linux you must expect to do a little research and I mean little, there's not a great deal to learn to make the switch for the average Joe.
     
  7. faugusztin

    faugusztin I *am* the guy with two left hands

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    In case of Ubuntu, i would compare it to Windows - it nags you once in a while that you have new updates (installing them via GUI of course), it nags you once in a while when there is a new major release of Ubuntu (and upgrades itself if asked to do so)... Sure, there are still things you need to do in command line, but it is less and less over the time.
     
  8. Phil Rhodes

    Phil Rhodes Hypernobber

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    Everything in Linux is fine once you "set your files up".

    Of course the process of doing so...
     
  9. Snips

    Snips I can do dat, giz a job

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    Strawman?
     
  10. Gareth Halfacree

    Gareth Halfacree WIIGII! Lover of bit-tech Administrator Super Moderator Moderator

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    You constructed a strawman argument: that the "Linux brigade," whatever that is, is "trying to get as many WinOS users to switch at every turn or topic." Sadly, there is no Linux brigade, and nobody is trying to get Windows users to switch. I'm probably one of the biggest Linux 'fanboys' on this 'ere forum - I use it on all my systems every day, and haven't booted Windows on anything other than a VM for screenshot purposes in years - and yet I once said:
    Does that sound like I'm trying to get Windows users to switch to Linux?
     
  11. Snips

    Snips I can do dat, giz a job

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    Maybe you took the comment personally but unfortunately there is a collective brigade whispering, passing notes in dark corners acting as if they are resistance revolutionists, proclaiming the good of Linux against the tyranny of the fascist Microsoft and all it's evil offerings.

    Of course, I could just be paranoid?
     
  12. Gareth Halfacree

    Gareth Halfacree WIIGII! Lover of bit-tech Administrator Super Moderator Moderator

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    Not half as much as there's a hive-mind that has to jump in to every single Linux-related thread with hobnail boots proclaiming how it will never take off, and Windows will always be the victor. Just look at this 'ere thread. (Okay, I mean "just look at Phil.")
     
  13. law99

    law99 Custom User Title

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    I like Linux but it has been a bit of a bugger gaming. So switching to Windows was a must. Sort of the opposite of what most do. My school used a nix like system when I was there, then I didn't have a computer for years(and I wasn't interested in them, neither at home or at school). Finally I built one and Linux did everything I needed for years. Probably still could.

    But it's a bit hard to stick with Linux when work is so MS focused. And now I have a dependency on Photoshop and such, I wouldn't really want to switch back. Much happier with using a couple of VMs I reckon instead over Windows nowadays. And of course, Linux makes a lovely lightweight webserver, which is never going to change.

    Not really sure what you are on about Phil. TBH I think a set up Linux machine was way easier for people to use - installation process is simple also. And I'm no sys admin, but I found it v.easy to set it all up for multiple users. Especially using a distro such as Linux Mint, which lets you start straight of the bat without having to ad media repositories or anything that you seem to think you'd need. Very little tinkering is needed normally.

    When I moved house last, my pc illiterate friend was in need of a pc. With cheap and cheerful equipment I found lying about, I was able to build a pc that would play all the flash pron stutter free, spotify, all the usual web, word processing, printing, bla bla bla without the worry of a moron just clicking and breaking things. And he was the sort of person that breaks things. Was trouble free for 1 year till he moved out. And I've not heard anything since so I assume all is well. It's quite the advantage not being able to just willy nilly install .exe files for the uninitiated.

    It's horses for courses though and i did build my mum a windows pc recently.
     
  14. Phil Rhodes

    Phil Rhodes Hypernobber

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    Well, that's rather unfair.

    I've never claimed that Linux will never take off (it already has, to some extent) and that there is any particular victory for anyone, windows or otherwise to claim.

    Linux is inconsistent because nobody is in charge, changeable for no good reason, poorly documented because writing documentation is boring, technically difficult to use because there is no financial imperative to make it otherwise, and quite blindingly unreliable.

    I should probably expand on the "unreliable". Linux is very good at doing one job for a very long time - set it up to do one thing and it will happily do that thing for months. Try to use it in a situation where things change a lot - as on a desktop - and the situation is somewhat different. For instance, grab a piece of software that's "available for linux" and try to use it on your machine that "runs linux" and you will quickly find out how many varieties of "linux" they are and how software written for one variety can actively break another. That's what I mean by unreliable. In this sort of regard, and others, Linux is appallingly unreliable.

    Ultimately, my position is that Linux is a pain and encouraging other people to put it on desktop PCs for naive users is irresponsible. There's a lot of politics and fashion going on here, and I don't think you should encourage people to use Linux on desktop computers becase you happen to think that using it makes you special. If that's your thing, go get a hair shirt, but unless you are willing to spend the many, many hours it will take in order to be properly responsible for that advice, don't give it.

    And I bet you aren't.
     
  15. Gareth Halfacree

    Gareth Halfacree WIIGII! Lover of bit-tech Administrator Super Moderator Moderator

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    Now who's being unfair, eh Phil? Have you skipped the part where I specifically don't encourage people to put Linux on their desktop, or where I explicitly explain that using Linux does not make one a special little snowflake? Or the part where my mother - she's 60 this year, by the way - uses Linux on both her desktop and laptop without issue? Now, when she was running *Windows*, I was constantly having to go around and get rid of this toolbar or that DLL error. These days, it just works. Wonderful.

    Take the blinkers off, and stop getting all het-up every time somebody on a site aimed at technology enthusiasts dares to mention the dreaded L-word. You don't like Linux. We get it, Phil, we really do. Other people do like Linux. At the end of the day, everybody should be free to use whatever operating system they want without getting a load of aggro over it - and that includes you, Phil.
     
    Last edited: 21 Mar 2013
  16. RedFlames

    RedFlames ...is not a Belgian football team

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    on PCs: Linux / OSX / Windows

    on Phones: Android / iOS / Windows [Phone]

    they all do pretty much the same thing, in pretty similar ways, reducing the choice down to app support and person al preference... no one is 'better' than the other, though they may each have their strengths and weaknesses...

    as for canonical dropping non-LTS support to 9 months... ffs just move to a rolling ditsro for non LTS versions already, we all know you're thinking about it... if only to save use from half-arsed rush jobs like unity has been at times...
     
  17. Phil Rhodes

    Phil Rhodes Hypernobber

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    Er?
     
  18. Gareth Halfacree

    Gareth Halfacree WIIGII! Lover of bit-tech Administrator Super Moderator Moderator

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    Yes? Is there something about that which is unclear?

    Let me try again: for your average Windows user who has chosen to try Linux, the switch to a semi-rolling release schedule for Ubuntu is nothing but positive news. It means it's much more likely that they'll keep their system up-to-date, because upgrades just happen.
     
  19. RedFlames

    RedFlames ...is not a Belgian football team

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    ffs guys, give it a rest... agree to disagree and move on...
     
  20. fdbh96

    fdbh96 What's a Dremel?

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    I don't use linux personally but I can see why Canonical are doing this. One of the main things linux types waffle on about is the choice and openness of it, so surely they can just switch to mint for example. Also, I think there are very few non techy people even know that ubuntu exists. Most people know linux exists but a lot of people who use it make it out to be only for the computer elite, which companies like canonical have tried to combat.

    On topic: I dont see how this is, generally for most people a bad thing. Automatic updates are much simpler and ensures that the majority of your user base are using the latest version.
     

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