A/V Configuring 2.1 setup with Asus Xonar D2X

This might sound like an odd question but is this possible with the Asus Xonar D2X?

I previously had an EVGA 680i with Realtek HD onboard audio which allowed you select "5.1" and then enable/disable all the speakers in the setup. I therefore had only the front speakers and sub enabled and it sounded fine.

Upon switching to my P5K premium I'm now using the Analog Devices "Sound max" drivers for my audio configuration. Unfortunately, this doesn't seem to allow the same flexiblilty. The only way to enable the dedicated sub is to switch to 5.1 surround. However, it doesn't seem to allow me to disable the centre and rear channels, which in some games (e.g. Crysis) causes some severe audio problems (due to the missing centre and rear speakers). It's either that or drop the sub at the mo and run 2.0.

Basically, I've been wanting to upgrade my audio setup for ages and now I'm considering getting an Asus Xonar D2X and this Acoustic Energy Aego M 2.1 Speaker setup. My main concern is whether or not the drivers allow for a "dedicated" 2.1 setup or will I have the same problems I'm having now?

 

You shouldn't need to set it up as 2.1
The speakers would (certainly every 2.1 setup I've used does anyway) use the sub to reinforce the bass even when you're giving it a 2.0 input

 

At the mo, I'm using a Dell soundbar (shockingly poor) and an R.E.L quake sub (I know, a slight contrast but it's along story). I'm running a 3.5mm lead from the green jack to the soundbar and a 3.5mm lead from the yellow jack to the quake.

When I set the output to "stereo speakers" in the drivers the sub is completely ignored (despite trying various drvier settings). The only way to get it to play anything is to enable 5.1 or 7.1. In a way I guess it makes sense (the ".1" being the dedicated mono bass signal). However, there seems to be no way to enable it on it's own with 2 stereo speakers. It's probably me missing something tbh but I'm sure I've tried everything.

I've noticed that a lot of 2.1 setups are theoretically stereo (2.0) systems, with the input coming from the soundcards stereo (green) output. The sub's crossover then grabs the low frequencies and powers the stereo satellitles, which take care of all the other frequencies. My setup is "true" 2.1; maybe that's the problem.

 

You wouldn't have that issue with an all-in-one 2.1 setup. The speakers will receive a 2.0 signal and use an internal crossover to delegate the bass to the sub and everything else to the satellites.

You could get around it with the REL + soundbar by using a minijack splitter and sending the same stereo signal to both the soundbar and the sub, as opposed to sending the LFE channel to the sub.

 

Yeah, like I said, I suspect the "true" discrete sub channel is something that's rarely seen outside of a 5.1/7.1 setup and therefore obviously isn't catered for in all cases. Bugger.

You're a bit of an audio buff IIRC Tad. What would you do in my shoes?

a: replace the soundbar with some decent 2.0 desktop speakers (any suggestions?) and run the quake off a splitter, as you suggested.
b: buy a dedicated 2.1 setup (again any suggestions?) and sell the quake (whilst wiping a tear from my eye)
c: do "a" but also buy a Xonar or alternative
d: do "b" but also buy a Xonar or alternative

 

Given that LFE really isn't a proper channel outside of surround, though, you don't really need the sub on a seperate channel in a 2.1 setup, as it will just be playing a stereo source anyway. In fact, you're probably better off feeding it stereo and letting the sub set the crossover frequency as opposed to letting your motherboard do it.

A decent active monitor setup + a REL Quake would really wipe the floor with something like a AE 2.1 setup (I mean really wipe the floor)

I have use pair of Tannoy Reveal Actives as my PC speakers and can certainly recommend them (no experience with other monitors though). You can find them for pretty cheap second hand as well, under £150 usually. Check the Sound On Sound classifieds for bargain monitors

If you want to just use stereo, and will listen to quite a bit of music, I'd go for a 'pro' card over a gaming card (ie E-Mu, M-Audio, ESI et al, though E-MU's vista support it shoddy at best, I'm unable to use my 1212M in vista at all). If you would miss the bells and whistles of a gaming card then the Asus is probably a pretty good call, judging from reviews, but I don't have any personal experience with it.

You could always get a gaming card based on features only (ignoring sound quality) and use an external DAC, effectively taking the card out of the equation so long as it does bit-matched playback.

 

So basically, if the REL is to remain, I need a minijack splitter. Where can I get some high quality (gold plated) cables/splitters? Most of the ones I can find look cheap and nasty.

Cheers for the heads up . Active monitors were something I'd considered but they're generally a little too expensive. Maybe 2nd hand monitors is the way to go.

To summarise, I used to be a bit of an AV enthusiast (though it's now shifted to computers tbh). I had a fairly decent setup at my flat, with 5 "KEF 2005HT.1" satellites and the REL Quake providing the sounds, with a Pioneer VSA-E07 AV receiver providing the power. I really liked the sound for gaming and movies, though admittedly, it wasn't as hot with stereo music (but it still sounded good).

Having recently moved back to my parents for a while I thought I'd sell the AV setup but I couldn't bare to say goodbye to the REL Quake and I saw an opportunity to use it with my PC. Like I said, it's overkill without the components to match it.

I've considered setting up the AV amp, with 2 KEF satellites and the sub but that'll still leave me with the whole "2.1" issue. I don't have room for the full complement of 5.1 speakers so I was looking for some sort of compromise.

Basically, I game a lot, listen to a fair amount of music (whilst working usually) and I'd like to strike a good balance for both, with a reasonable budget. Any soundcard I choose must be 100% Vista 64 compatible (one of the reasons I was interested in the Xonar). I know next to nothing about PC audio and it seems a murky area with frankly, quite poor support.

In truth, gaming cards seem rather excessive for my needs. After all, I'm going to be technically using purely 2 channel, stereo audio, so all those other channels and DD/DTS processing are irrelevant to me. An external DAC sounds like an interesting option; any idea where I could get some more info?

Thanks for taking the time to help with this Tad

 

I have your answer, I didn't read to see if you found it but, put it on 5.1 and then turn down all the sound on the speakers your not using in the mixer panel in asus control. So turn rear channels to 0 sound on the playback pannel

 

You could make your own with some quality plugs and cable (neutrik are the de-facto pro connector, and pretty cheap. van-damme cable good 'n cheap too), but you may find that something for a few quid from ebay would do the trick just as well.

Since you already have the AV amp, you could always get some stereo speakers, second hand again, and use them through the amp. There would be a bundle more options available there than in active monitors. You can set the crossover frequency in the amp and send the bass to your sub even with straight stereo signals.

A couple of good cheap DACs are available, the Beresford 7510 and Behringer SRC2496 stand out, both for a smidge under £100 new. They would be tough to beat even spending a fair amount more (and some reckon that they're tough to beat even getting in to 4 figures, but there is a lot of hype around them, I'm not so sure)

I use a Beresford on the PC, its noticeably better than the analogue output on an E-Mu 1212M. Both the Beresford and the Behringer can be modified pretty easily too, if you're that way inclined.

 

Thanks again Tad

It's weird actually, I was googling for external DACs for PC audio this morning; the Beresford came up time and time again. Everybody was ranting on about how fantastic is is and can't be beaten unless you're willing to spend 4 figures plus, but I thought I'd wait for your opinion. If it's good enough for Mister_Tad, it's good enough for me

The AV amp has got to go unfortunately. It's massive and I don't really have room for it. The other side is that it's an awful waste using it solely for this purpose. I've considered using: soundcard/Beresford DAC/steeo amp/passive loudspeakers but really it starts to add up.

That said, the Beresford, Tannoy Reveal Actives and soundcard come to a fair amount of cash. I'm thinking of shifting my 5 KEF satellites to help fund it.

Couple more questions though Tad if you get the time:

- Based on your advice, I need a 100% vista 64 compatible soundcard (pro or gaming) with bit-matched playback (could my onboard audio provide that?) Do you know of any? The Xonar?
- There are various Tannoy Reveal Actives but I've been looking at the "5A" models. They are a little cheaper than some of the other models (but still retail at £300!) and have some fantastic reviews. I assume, being monitors, that they're permanently "grill-less"?

For now I might just grab a soundcard and the Tannoys. Then I can always integrate the DAC later (once the KEFs are sold) and enjoy the "true" improvement in quality. I think my focus has to be getting the right soundcard.

 

Thanks for the advice but I've tried this already I'm afraid.

All it's effectively doing is turning down the volume for speakers that aren't present/connected anyway. It still leaves me with the problem of anything directly in the centre of the screen being "silenced" in games like Crysis (be it enemies, dialog, gunfire). It's due to the missing centre channel (which it thinks is there, as it's "enabled") and it sounds awful.

 

You'll get that sometimes with certain audio bits. It is good for the cash, and its better than some more expensive bits, but I would put most of the hype down to just being hype. Its certainly worth the money though. The Behringer is a little bit better (IMO), but is a bit big and fugly, and you'll need adapters for most speakers (though most of the tannoys can take a balanced XLR/Jack input). The Beresford is a nice tidy package that works well with a PC setup.

Apart from not E-Mu, I can't really advise. I use an X-Fi for gaming, which does the trick. I got it because I used to game exclusively through headphones, and the virtual surround gubbins were quite convincing. For music, I use SPDIF out through the front bay through to the beresford, but I don't often listen to music on the PC now as my hi-fi is in the same room. If you plan on getting a DAC at some point in the future anyway, I wouldn't worry about uber quality with the sound card. Just make sure it has a SPDIF output and can do bit-matched playback. Other than that, go for the features and price point that best suits.

The 5A is one of the newer Reveals, and considerably more expensive than the older ones, even second hand (even through the new MSRP of the older model is higher). The ones I've got are simply Tannoy Reveal Active (no other numbers/letters). I've seen pairs go for less than £150 (new MSRP was just shy of £400). Another alternative is the Reveal 6D which have a built-in DAC, they're obviously more expensive but remove the need for a dedicated DAC (though a standalone DAC would probably sound better). There's probably some Behringer actives worth looking at too, but I've never used them, so can't comment on the sound.

 

Thanks again for your advice Tad, much appreciated

I'm gonna have a wee think before I jump straight in. I was thinking of maybe a decent stereo amp, with 2 of my KEF satellites & the quake. The quake also comes with a special pulg that allows you to connect it to the speaker terminals and the crossover does the job picking out the low frequencies. I used it for "direct" stereo via the AV amp and I remember it sounding pretty good.

Obviously, I still need to invest in a good DAC (gonna go for the Beresford methinks) and a sound card. Struggling to find any information on which cards are capable of "bit-matched" playback to be honest. I doubt onboard audio can output a "bit-matched" signal?

Oh and does Vista still have the "48Khz K-mixer" sampling issues that XP has? IIRC it was supposed to be sorted in Vista?

 

I would have thought most half decent gaming cards would be able to do it. On an x-fi it is selectable in audio creation mode. You may even find that onboard audio does it too. Basically it means it just outputs the straight line-level signal without any DSP etc applied.

As far as I'm aware Vista has addressed many of the issues seen with the XP K-mixer, but you can still use ASIO or kernel-streaming in your music player of choice anyway.

 

Sorry to keep asking questions Tad,

I'm "eyeing up" a second hand pair of Tannoy Reveal Actives but I was just wondering about connections. They use a balanced XLR jack. It's not something I've encountered before but do I assume I need some sort of "XLR plug to RCA jack" adapter? Then run one RCA lead to each speaker from the DAC?

What about the "balanced" part? Anything I need to worry about?

 

You'll need either an RCA->XLR (or an RCA->Jack adapter, either will plug in to the speakers)

this here would let you run an RCA cable from the DAC (or a minijack->RCA from the sound card) in to the adapter, in to the speaker
http://www.soundsavers.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=1051

You can use a non-balanced signal in to a balanced input (and vice-versa), you just won't see the advantages of the balanced input.

 

Nice one Tad . Worth spending the extra dosh on some Neutriks?

 

I would say so, not because they're any better than any other quality plug, but because you know what you're getting with them. With an unknown brand, there's always the risk that it will be tat.

 

Yeah, that's what I was thinking. These should do the trick?

 

Thats the one

EDIT: one thing to mention about the Reveals, unless you can situate them 2-3ft from the back wall, it would be worthwhile picking up some foam plugs for the rear ports. The bass is a bit over-inflated otherwise.