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Conflict between Russia and USA?

Discussion in 'Serious' started by Yariko, 17 Dec 2011.

  1. adidan

    adidan Guesswork is still work

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    It was a humourous attempt at a serious point and your assumptions are misplaced.
     
  2. specofdust

    specofdust Banned

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    Yes but it falls down in its lack of linkages with the real world. Nice try though...trying counts...
     
  3. adidan

    adidan Guesswork is still work

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    Perhaps you need to reassess your understanding of geopolitics? I wouldn't like to assume though...
     
  4. lp1988

    lp1988 Minimodder

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    Michele Bachmann is a candidate for US presidency...
     
  5. specofdust

    specofdust Banned

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    Barack Obama was elected with 52.9% of the US vote. The king of saudi is a hereditary monarch with absolute power. Putin, on the other hand, is an ex KGB spy who now runs Russia to benefit the interests of him and his other ex-kgb turned gangsters by murdering, beating, imprisoning, and outright defrauding the Russian people on a day to day basis.

    Your equivocation between this and what are relatively low levels of corporate corruption in the United States is wrong not just by degree but by the intrinsic qualities of the two sets of states.

    That is to say, the reasons for calling Russia are gangster state are many, varied, and support the usage of the term. The application of this term to the US or to Saudi, whatever you think of their forms of government and the abilities those convey upon them, is incorrect, and as said before, at best ignorant, at worst just very unfunny.
     
  6. bodkin

    bodkin Overheating

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    Putting aside the politics for one second, any form of action involving the US, Russians and ourselves would be fraught with problems even if we were working together. You only need to look at the "James Blunt airport" incident to see just how ignorant the US are when it comes to other cultures armed forces, and completely lacking respect for allies.
     
  7. StingLikeABee

    StingLikeABee What's a Dremel?

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    What an arsehole you are, wasn't 100% sure till that post. I bet you're a bundle o laughs at the Xmas parties....not!
     
  8. Elton

    Elton Officially a Whisky Nerd

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    The Mongols managed it. Why not us?
     
  9. AMDalltheway

    AMDalltheway What's a Dremel?

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    That is why they are on about invading Somalia. But seriously, they will attack Iran first - after Syria has been toppled, then Iran is surround and with Libya, Iraq and the usual Arab neighbours in check there can then be a total war on Iran, and if relations with Pakistan get any worse probably them aswell. Russia may intervene if Iran are messed with, its a gamble.

    Unfortunatly for us Brits whatever the US do we tend to mirror and I dont really have the stomach for engaging in war with Iran. We fought the Afghans and Iraqis were bad enough the Russians and Iranians dont f*** around.

    The whole business is about oil, gas and raw materials. Its never been about deomocracy or human rights. Everything that is north-south-east-west, every nation its all about recources and who controls them. Basically the wests recourses are coming to an end and Russia and the east have most of the world's recources and we want em bad.
     
  10. specofdust

    specofdust Banned

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    Next thing you know we'll be invading Canada, with their 2nd highest oil reserves in the world, and Australia, with their giant uranium reserves.

    Damn evil west, plotting against Canada and Australia!
     
  11. Nexxo

    Nexxo * Prefab Sprout – The King of Rock 'n' Roll

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    Not necessary. Canada and Australia already happily do business with us. The countries that are on the invasion/conflict investment list don't.
     
  12. specofdust

    specofdust Banned

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    Iran has one thing and one thing only which we want. Oil.

    They export, on a yearly basis, about as much oil as the EU produces domestically, about 1/4 of our needs.

    Your usual argument doesn't work in this case. Iran have been doing business with the world quite happily, its their only real source of income, and the only reason they're not doing business with the west at this point is because the west has decided to place sanctions on them which prohibit western countries buying Iranian oil.

    Saddam was quite happy to do business with us too (although the USD to EURO thing was going to upset some stuff, I'm happy to agree).

    This view that we invade countries to get their resources is outdated, crudely simplistic, and simply insufficient for explaining modern politics.
     
  13. knuck

    knuck Hate your face

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    [​IMG]
     
  14. BRAWL

    BRAWL Dead and buried.

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    You know I have always wondered what the hell would happen if this occured. Do they corden off the seperate parts of the I.S.S and start fighting with wierdly flavoured ice cream and sporks?

    Sorry off-topic wierdness.
     
  15. Nexxo

    Nexxo * Prefab Sprout – The King of Rock 'n' Roll

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    It's not about Iran selling the oil, it's about the West not making any profit from that trade. That's how the whole shenanigans started in 1953 --with moves towards nationalisation of the Iran oil industry, and Western companies being pissed off about that.

    Iraq is the same story. It was fine as long as the Western oil industry had first pick. Then Saddam, being kind of pissed off about Gulf War Mk.1 (perhaps not unreasonably, given that little misunderstanding with April Glaspie) decided to look for other customers who paid in Euro. The West reacted with embargo's, and finally, invasion.

    Libya? Similar story. The West has just learned to be more subtle about it.

    There are other factors, of course. Nobody likes the idea of trillions of dollars pouring into Middle-Eastern nations with an at best doubtful and at worst outright hostile ideology towards the rest of the world. But the US is also planning ahead of Peak Oil, the main aim being to 1. extricate itself from oil dependency on other (mostly not very friendly) nations by switching to nuclear energy, and 2. to make all other nations in the world dependent on the US for that nuclear tech instead, in the same way that the West has been dependent on Middle East oil. Iran's nuclear programme does not fit that agenda.
     
  16. AMDalltheway

    AMDalltheway What's a Dremel?

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    - But most people are brainwashed by the daily bombardment of pro western news about how we are delivering democracy to these lands that the real agenda slips under the radar and people see any revisionist thinking that goes against thier ingrained media portrayal as conspiricy or over reacting etc.

    History is written by the victors - and not just history, the present is being written by the powers that be in our nation. Fall out of favour with the party line and you get burned.
     
  17. specofdust

    specofdust Banned

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    While I don't agree with what happened in the 50's in Iran by CIA and the SIS, a lot of countries with natural resources in that time period seemed to have the idea that they could just decide to make all the foreign investment in their country belong to them via "nationalisation" and that somehow that wouldn't piss off major powers, and it wasn't theft.

    Methinks this is overly simplistic. Iraq's oil production has taken years to get back on track, western oil companies have made far less than they would have, and China have started opening up oil reserves in Iraq just recently IIRC.
     
  18. Nexxo

    Nexxo * Prefab Sprout – The King of Rock 'n' Roll

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    YMMV. Iran offered said companies compensation; they just weren't happy with the deal. Regardless, it was about oil.

    Western oil companies have control in the long term --and the deals they managed to broker were very good indeed. The only cost has been to the tax payer.
     
  19. BRAWL

    BRAWL Dead and buried.

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    It's always about oil. Tragically it's going to be about it now until it's gone.
     
  20. specofdust

    specofdust Banned

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    Compensation at what level? Market price? Accounting for future earnings? Or just at some level the government deemed acceptable? Companies being unhappy with a deal offered doesn't give anyone the right to steal their stuff.

    As I said, I don't like the underhand way with which the Iranian government of the 50's was overthrown, but as with Allende, I can't help but feel that if democratic governments of the time hadn't started to think they were themselves above the law, and that they could help themselves to other people's industry, things wouldn't have gone so badly for them.

    A lot of crappy times came out of attempts at nationalisation followed by the US getting annoyed and getting rid of governments.

    For now. I wouldn't expect the oil deals to necessarily last particularly long.

    It's not going to be gone for a long while yet. There is plenty of oil left in the world, if we're willing to exploit it (which we are.
     

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