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Conflict between Russia and USA?

Discussion in 'Serious' started by Yariko, 17 Dec 2011.

  1. Cutter

    Cutter What's a Dremel?

    14 Jan 2012
    Likes Received:
    I hear what you're saying, and for the record, I largely agree with you, but some points to consider:-

    1. Percentage of vote won means nothing. Far more important is what was the turnout? i.e. If he won 52.9% of all votes cast, but only 25% of those eligible to vote actually bothered to do so, his democratic legitimacy is open to question.

    2. Murdering, beating, imprisoning - can't speak for the first one, but there's plenty of evidence of the second and third at guantanamo. How many of those imprisoned there have even been given a trial?

    3. Relatively low level of corporate corruption? Sorry, but you're way off beam on that one. You just need to Google any major US arms deal (or oil deal, technology deal, ...) to see how low level the corruption in the US was, is and will continue to be.

    e.g. American threats of economic sanctions agains the UK and France over Suez were less about concern for Arab rights than the US seeing an opportunity to grab a slice of the middle east oil pie.

    Or how about googling for corruption and the F104 Starfighter produced by Lockheed? 20 years after adoption by West Germany, and amidst one of the most apalling safety records of any aircraft, out came the gory details of the massive bribes paid around the world to politicians, including German ones, to induce them into doing deals with Lockheed to buy the plane after both the USAF and USN decided the plane was unsuitable and unsafe? Which led directly to president Jimmy Carter having to pass the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act.

    Or how about more recently, with the record $1 Billion dollar fine against Intel after it emerged there was truth to AMD's claim about massive payments made to, amongst others, Dell, to encourage them not to stock AMD equipped systems? Just for lulz, one year the payments from Intel basically accounted for almost all of Dell's annual profits one year, and when Intel was made to pay the fine to AMD, it gave AMD its first positive annual result in years.

    Or how about Japan buying F15s and F35s instead of say, Typhoons? Of course, that deal was purely on the merits of the planes concerned (the F15 airframe dating back to the 1950s and the F35 with some large unanswered questions about when or indeed if it will ever enter service, its actual stealth capability etc) and nothing at all to do with what is far more likely, i.e. Japan being told in no uncertain terms that it's "buy our plane, or watch out for yourselves if North Korea / China get nasty in your backyard).

    I could go on, but there's no need as the information is all there in the public domain.

    That I think is the difference. The US and the "west" are no less corrupt, IMHO, than say Russia or Saudi. There is just more chance of (a) the perpetrators being found out and (b) something actually being done about it.
  2. lp1988

    lp1988 Minimodder

    24 Jun 2008
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    The first one is really one to consider but your numbers are off it seems that the turn up is about 50-60 percent depending on source, however still a low count all considered. Actually depressing that there ever was an election with less than 50 percent participation. For comparison last election in Denmark had a 87 Percent participation.

    Your second point I have to disagree with however, The US does have a low level of corruption, while still hight compared to Denmark it is really not that much of a problem. If it really was a problem you would see that getting accused of corruption would really just be a matter of having to pay a few extra bribes, not paying billions in fines.
  3. Da_Rude_Baboon

    Da_Rude_Baboon What the?

    28 Mar 2002
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    How so? If a large part of the population choose not to vote than they have forfeited their opinion. Democracy works both ways.

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