News Could the EU fines delay Vista?

granted MS may have a majority share of the market due to their software ease of use, or marketing strategies. However I do belive it is wrong of the EU to demand that MS remove IE, Media Player etc from its OS, since Apple ship OSX with its own broswer, its own media player etc. Hardly a fair playing ground.

I know Linux is growing in populairty in various sectors of industry and commerce and UNIX has been an alterative to Windows Servers for years.

To me its a case of going after a company who has had a few lucky roles of hte dice. So what if it comes with media player, you either need to download codecs to watch DivX, Xvid movies etc, or download another player.

 

I am a Linux Zealot, and I'm proud of it... But everything has a place. Like it or not, the world of PC illiterates (mostly buisnessmen/workers, which make up a huge share) isn't ready for Linux. It's not about user friendlyness, it's not about ease of use, it's not about technology, it's not about superior products, it's about name, it's about compatibility with other companies, it's about support. Things Linux don't offer, wetter you like it or not.

If MS pulled out of the EU market, companies would still use XP, and not Vista. They won't go OSS.

 

Perhaps the EU would change their laws on software piracy so all consenting adults could legally download an American version.

Or smuggle copies in disguised as porn DVDs.



^^(a Joke)

 

As much as I'm opposed to piracy... Good idea cpemma

 

I think right now, the quote is not "sux 2 be u" but rather "sux 2 be eu"

 

i concurr too

i recon the EU would crumble in no time as they suddenly get halted on the PC front

BTW, that means - stop selling windows in europe, dont sell it atall

 

Yeah, and miss out on the largest paying market in the world, I'm sure Microsoft would want to do that. The EU may give MS problems, but 400M people, comparitively affluent and more likely to buy legal software, is not a market Microsoft or any other sane company would pass up. The whole reason the EU is able to do the stuff it does is because of the size of the customer base in the EU. Microsoft won't pull out of the EU any more then any major bank or drinks company might if they were faced with a similar kicking.

 

I don't understand why the EU is only targeting Microsoft. Microsoft is not the only company that bundles products. They should go after Apple until they release an OSX without QuickTime, Safari, and the entire iLife bundle that is pre-installed with the OS. The should hound the hundres of Linux distributions that come pre-packaged with all sorts of software.

 

the whole mess is microsofts fault for dilibratly making a web browser a core component of the OS back in the windows 95 era to avoid having to remove it. I currently don't have explorer on my xp install and use litestep and firefox and mini explorer instead. Thats alot of work but explorer is no longer part of my install. The EU has caved over this for more than a decade, they have already shown an inability to act.

 

I dont think its entirely about "bundling" though but also "integration" ie potentially giving there own products in other sectors a leg-up by building them into the OS in ways no other software manufacturers is able to do (primarily because they dont tell them how?) as well as making it almost impossible to remove or in some cases not use, said other microsoft software products.

Bit like a tap manufacturer that has 90% of the worlds tap market making it so water from any other company only dribbles out of the tap. (Yeah thats honestly the best analogy I could come up with off-hand )

If microsoft built PC's themselves and only sold Windows as part of the machines I'm sure they'd be allowed to bundle as much software as they liked.

Linux .. none of the bundled software is integrated in any way that other software producers can't emulate, since everything is documented and open source, nor is linux or any software bundled with it, owned by a single company.

 

It perhaps should be pointed out:

Microsoft was selling their products in Europe long before the EU even existed...and the rest of the governments in the world aren't so severe with their monopoly fears...it's the EU that's suddenly changing the rules and asking for special treatment. Like if the Chicago Bulls Basketball team, which had played away games in LA for many decades, was suddenly told that if they wanted to play the Lakers, they'd have to wear short shorts and only shoot left handed. So now they'd all have to go buy a new wardrobe and waste time practicing playing left handed (a skill only useful in the 1 area with the new rules) just because LA wanted to feel special.

I also think one of Glider's points should be emphasized:

If the EU makes it too difficult for Microsoft to release Vista (on time or at all), it will just mean that 90% of people there keep using Windows XP or earlier versions of windows.


All these people won't suddenly become ultra computer literate and switch to Linux. At best, a slightly higher percentage of people will start using Apple's stuff...but not too many, since they'll just as easily be able to buy a computer with XP on it, and they already know Windows. (Did you think XP would just disappear as soon as Vista came out?)

How many businesses NOW still use Windows 2000 just because they feel secure with it even though XP's been around 5 years? How many people have parents still using Windows 98SE? How many computers bought in the last 5 years/2 years/1 year/2 months won't even support many of Vista's uber features (keep in mind, the bulk of the world doesn't read Bit-Tech and upgrade their hardware as often as you probably think). None of these types of people will look at not having Vista as some sort of disadvantage -- what percentage of the population even understands that the difference between Windows 95 and XP isn't just a color scheme and a roundier start button?

 

Even if MS pulled out of the EU -which isn't going to happen whatever you may think due to the 400m people that happen to live there and the huge percentage of those who use computers- then it would be years before a replacement would be *required*. Most businesses won't upgrade for at least a year anyway due to costs and the lack of benifits. So you have years to decide on a new OS and to train people in its use. Linux has already started to gain popularity in certain government sectors and if a common variant of that was chosen to be used all over europe then there would be very little damage to the economy. It wouldn't "cripple" the EU in any way, shape or form. What is so important that it would destroy businesses? If everybody was using this imaginary Linux OS then they would be perfectly compatible and they can still access the internet (with even greater security than before) to send e-mail and create websites etc. There is enough software out there to manage every single application that is required. The transition would be rough but in the end it would be all the same.

After all many media companies have a mix of Macs and PCs, they seem to get by well enough.

 

Might I ask why you do that? Except just to make a point? Because it serves 0.0 purpose... I can understand you don't want to use IE because it is insecure, but there's nothing wrong with Explorer... Unless you maybe don't thrust your LOCAL sources?

It's the same as: I have a Linux distro installed without a Linux kernel, now look at me how much pointless things I've done... I had better installed BSD or Windows.

I have an other analog example, buy a car, remove the engine and install a "Flintstone" style of propulsion system...

If you have that much problems with Windows, don't buy it then...

Cobalt: True, but try sending a .odt document to a supplier... Then you'll see how much your reasoning is flawed. If all companies (or at least the majority) would go opensource at the same time, that would be kind of viable (I don't mention the support MS offers, compared to the "make it on your own" support Linux offers). But since that isn't going to happen, don't count on a OSS transition any time soon.

 

Don't you mean "RTFM"? You also forgot to mention that all Linux developers are hippies living in their parents basements.

There is commercial support for OpenOffice, if you really need it, and there is also some free support.

Linux distributions like Ubuntu also have some commercial support.

 

I was writing a reply but I think Cobalt said it all in his post (#32)

100% agreement ... but, MS will eventually end support for XP and isn't one of the business models for Linux not to sell the OS but to sell the support?

Quoted for Truth. (I'm sure that if MicroSoft did say "no Vista for the EU" then, when the support for XP ends, other companies would jump in to fill that support gap (It's just too big of a market to ignore) - Not support for XP but for what they had been working on in the years since MS said "no".)

If all of the EU had to find an alternative, it would be found (or created). Microsoft would be forcing them to find an alternative standard. Given the size and economic power of the EU, that standard would probably then become the world standard.

 

That's assuming the consumer is able to make an educated and informed choice and most are not.

 

I always wondered the same thing. The EU is complaining about all this software bundled in Windows for free but OSX and every Linux Distro I've used has similar, if not more programs then MS bundles with theirs. They only complain to them because MS has the money to pay and because they have so many more users. It's basically the same thing as making a virus, you go after the program that is going to effect the most machines. There aren't OSX viruses because it's perfect, it's just not worth the time.

I really don't think this is over a monopoly or anything like that, I think it's just an excuse for the EU to make money from a company that has enough to make it worth the time and effort.

 

ok, hold the phone... This is the same EU we are talking about, the ones with their infinite wisdom/time/money tried to force curvature tolerances on bananas and declared that Cadbury's chocolate should only be called "Chocolate flavoured.." because it's ratio of coco solids were too low for its arbitrary standard?

Please forgive me for being cynical, but the EU seems only there to cause disruption in any system, could how confused the average Joe would be after (getting ripped off) buying a shiny new PC, firing it up expecting to surf the we... oh well, maybe play a little mus... er, ok, emai... nope... how about I just download some other program that will enable me to do these things from the web using internet expl... oh,

I can see only one good point to come of all of this: At least without WMP integrated maybe we wont have that compulsory boot time intro tune playing?

 

I personaly dont see what the big deal is, MS puts in WMP and IE and such so that it is convenient, the average computer user doesnt want to go around downloading a ton of programs right off the bat. And it isnt like MS makes you use them for christ's sake, nothing stops you from installing your Winamp,Foobar2k,Firefox, or Opera. The EU just has a stick in its ass, and wants to make a little more money.

 

OSx (like any Linux flavour) isn't perfect, nor imune to virii... There are virii for both, I asure you. But I agree it's more secure by nature.

I was saying this since day 1...

If MS would cut out EU, then there probably would come other commercial products that take care of support, I agree. But now support is mostly free (or phone charges), I think that's going to change if there's a commercial firm handling the support.

True again, (and great OpenSource thinking, which I like). If there's a gap, it will be filled. But, if MS retracts their products today, it would be at least some months before there was a product that could take its place. And then I'm not mentioning the years it will take to change the stance of the average PC illiterate that only can, and wants, to use Windows. It's not that much about technology, the problem is situated between keyboard and chair.