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Current US riot situation

Discussion in 'Serious' started by KayinBlack, 31 May 2020.

  1. boiled_elephant

    boiled_elephant Merom Celeron 4 lyfe

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    I'm still up to my neck in the BLM/systemic racism issue, wading thru information whenever I get free time (and stomach), and so far I'm leaning towards the judicial systems being much more problematic than the street-level policing. What evidence there is of systemic racism in the US, especially, comes most strongly from courts and jury processes. There are so many things that seem obviously flawed about the way they do it.

    I was also reading thru search laws the other day, diffing American vs UK laws, and was mortified to see that, where in the US there is a constitutional right not to have your person or vehicle searched without probable cause or a warrant, in the UK that only applies to beat officers, and that a constable or higher can simply authorize a search regardless of circumstances. Not sure why it's so, but jeez, gg UK.

    Uncomfortably for my political sensibilities, it was also Theresa May who instigated the pushback against excessive and/or undocumented use of stop-and-search powers, calling for reform, guidelines and training. Really not sure how to parse that information.
     
  2. Pete J

    Pete J Unemployed dole scum

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    Yin and yang? :grin:
     
  3. edzieba

    edzieba Virtual Realist

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    Unless you're within 100 miles of the US border, including the entire coastline and the Canadian and Mexican borders (covers the majority of major US cities and 2/3 of the population) in which case neither Probably Cause nor Reasonable Suspicion are required to perform a search. And in practice, 'Probable Cause' could be "hey, I think I smell weed", with any dispute of that coming a) if you can afford legal representation to make that argument and b) near the end of the process of detention, charging, and trial as part of an 'unlawful search' defense against prosecution. Or in other words: there's little in practice to prevent an officer from cuffing you and ripping out the lining your car 'searching for drugs' because they didn't like the colour of your skin, and any recourse is gated behind you having sufficient cash to hire a good lawyer.
     
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  4. fix-the-spade

    fix-the-spade Well-Known Member

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    The same Theresa May behind the 'Hostile Environment' and the Windrush scandal. What can I say, a broken clock is right twice a day, Theresa May was right once in 8 years of office, I'd rather have the clock.
     
    Last edited: 6 Aug 2020
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  5. boiled_elephant

    boiled_elephant Merom Celeron 4 lyfe

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    Wandering slightly off-topic, but do you think the US system of individual legal fees is better or worse than the UK's system of loser-pays? I can't decide. I can imagine scenarios where each respectively would be better, but I don't know which is more beneficial to the little guy, the economically disadvantaged people you describe.
     
  6. fix-the-spade

    fix-the-spade Well-Known Member

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    Loser pays is definitely the superior model. Pay your own fees basically renders any large enough entity immune from individual lawsuits, class actions rarely deliver anything meaningful to the plaintifs. It also means that any sufficiently large/rich entity/individual can destroy people at will by entering into litigation against a target and spinning things out until the victim is bankrupted or forced to settle. Specialized are great fans of that tactic although they seem to have slowed down a bit in recent years.

    Neither system is particularly conducive to frivolous lawsuits, most of the US States (maybe all of them?) have laws that force the loser to pay both sides in frivolous cases. But loser pays greatly levels the playing field when one side is vastly more wealthy than the other.
     

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