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Death of a National Health Service

Discussion in 'Serious' started by Nexxo, 23 Jan 2011.

  1. Nexxo

    Nexxo * Prefab Sprout – The King of Rock 'n' Roll

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    Although I rarely restrain myself from vocally contributing to existing threads in SD, I seldomly start one of my own. But I think this is one such occasion. Because we may be on the cusp of a historical change that will resonate throughout the society of this nation for decades to come and will change everything. It may be as big a change as the industrial revolution, votes for all or, indeed, the inception of the NHS in 1947.

    It may be, in fact, the beginning of the end of the NHS.

    No scaremongering or Chicken Little "The sky is falling!" here. With the new reforms instigated by Lansley I see the first steps to systematically dismantling the NHS and turning it into a private health care enterprise much as we see in the US. As time goes on it looks more and more as if this is not a hare-brained cost-cutting exercise but a move that has been fermenting in the dank cellars of the Conservatives (and to some extent, New Labour) for years; a plan that has been plotted and executed like a chess game by interested private enterprise parties, many of which are from the US. Not convinced? Have a look here.

    Lefty consipracy-theorist paranoia or the tolling of the bell? You decide. I for one am seriously starting to think that in 10 years time, there will be no more NHS. National Insurance will devolve into an obligatory general health insurance for all, run by private enterprises, providing only the most basic (and costly) health care. For the first time you may be challenged on whether you are entitled to insurance coverage for a particular health intervention. For the first time, you may have to pay extra contributions to cover pre-existing conditions. Welcome to the 51st State.
     
  2. RichCreedy

    RichCreedy Hey What Who

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    privatising the health services can only be a bad thing, people with money will be fine, those without will lose out on treatment, because they cant afford it.

    i have pre-existing conditions, so would be one of the groups penalised.

    nhs dentists anyone, i only ever go when i need some dental work done urgently, in the last 12-15yrs i have been to the dentist twice, once for them to check the loose filling, the second for the actual work to be rectify it.

    next we will be having credit cards swipped as we get in an ambulance
     
  3. thehippoz

    thehippoz New Member

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    ambulance rides cost over 1k here.. gl with that

    were still paying over 775 a month for full coverage- about 200 out of our pocket monthly and the school system takes up the rest.. that's not even considered that bad for no deductible coverage here, $5 prescriptions

    it's just too expensive.. if you fall under the poverty level you can get medical though- but it's pretty low like under 2k in your bank account/assests and think was like 1200 a month..

    I mean we get really good care.. but no wonder they make a lot of money

    the real craziness comes from the drug companies- one prescription from switzerland costs almost 6k a month now.. one 30 day bottle- I dunno how they get away with that

    guess it's supply and demand at it's finest.. from what I read you guys have a 2 trillion deficit to dig your way out of so that may be the pressure.. it's nothing compared to ours though

    I'm sure someone sane will come along and point out that if your healthcare system is working, why would you want to go mess with it.. you don't want these costs on top of high taxes
     
  4. RichCreedy

    RichCreedy Hey What Who

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    yes we have a very large defecit, yet they cut funding to our own services whilst still giving out millions, maybe even billions to foreign aid
     
  5. Cthippo

    Cthippo Can't mod my way out of a paper bag

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    Having spent the last 3 years working for a private ambulance service, I can tall you exactly why that is.

    For just about anyone in healthcare in the US, your biggest payor is the government, either Medicare or Medicaid. Both programs are under-funded and the re-reimbursements are a joke. For Medicare, you get around 25-30% of what you bill. If you're a medicare patient and you take that $1000 ambulance ride, then we, the provider, will get $300, not the $1000 we billed. Except, it's even screwier than that. Medicare only pays 85%, so we'll get $255 from them and the balance, $150 ($1000x15%), gets billed to the patient or their supplementary insurance.

    With Medicaid it's even worse. At best you might get 15-18% of what you bill Medicaid and there is no secondary payor. It's generally recognized within the industry that ambulance companies lose money on every Medicaid transport we do.

    At the company I used to work for we did 250-300 transports a month, but it took a person working full time just to do the billing for those. Every different insurance company and branch of the government wants different paperwork and sometimes you have to bill 2 or even three different places. Some transports we never even bothered to bill because we KNEW we would never get paid and so why waste $.43 on postage? We had one patient in particular who we took a couple of times a month for a certain kind of therapy. The process was to bill Medicare, have them deny it because they claimed Medicaid should pay it, Bill Medicaid, have THEM deny it, and then bill Medicare again with Medicaid's rejection and they would finally pay it. We had to go through this process twice a month EVERY SINGLE MONTH!

    You guys have a much better, though not perfect, system over there, and I suggest you fight like hell to keep it.
     
  6. specofdust

    specofdust Banned

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    6.56billion total. 4 of that on aid and development, 2.5 on aid commitments within the UN,EU, IMF, etc.

    Spending on healthcare has increased in previous years and is now standing still at about 120Bn per year.

    We are committed to foreign aid by the EU, which mandates 0.7% of GDP spending on foreign aid. Not a great deal I think you'll agree.

    Returning to this thread when I can with proper considered response.
     
  7. DXR_13KE

    DXR_13KE BananaModder

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    This^^
     
  8. Matticus

    Matticus ...

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    Worrying times indeed, I am not holding out much hope that anyone will "fight like hell" to keep the NHS as it stands. It seems that once people are over the age of 25 and not racist no one cares enough about anything to make any sort of stand. I see a lot of political apathy around me every day with 99% of the people I associate with, all from very different groups.

    We need the French, they would riot and protest the **** out of this!
     
  9. sp4nky

    sp4nky BF3: Aardfrith WoT: McGubbins

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    What can you do when the man in charge has been waiting for his moment for the last 6 years and now he's got the power to do what he wants? He's not listening to advice, he knows what's best, he's got a plan and he's sticking to it.

    If you're interested, there's a hearing in Parliament about how the vision is going to be implemented later this week. Watch this on Tuesday at 10:30 AM. It will be recorded and saved for 12 months on the site.
     
  10. ccxo

    ccxo On top of a hill

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    Well if you reckon the NHS would be gone in 10 years time another election or so before then to save it, if things go wrong.

    NHS needs reform has had years of labour just throwing money at it, hoping the problem would go away. A overhaul would be good for the NHS.
     
  11. Cleggmeister

    Cleggmeister Of reasonable knowledge...

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    NHS is poor value for most of us, therefore is not viable. I'm for scrapping it.

    Remove all the elements that detract value, then maybe reconsider...
     
  12. Cleggmeister

    Cleggmeister Of reasonable knowledge...

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    Don't confuse apathy with quiet discontent. Many are sick of this socialist farce, let's have some proper conservatism where people take responsibility for themselves and accept that you get what you give.

    As an aside, I love the French, but not a view that everyone is entitled to something they've not earned.
     
  13. Teelzebub

    Teelzebub Up yours GOD,Whats best served cold

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    So you would like Maggie Thatcher back would you tell that to the people that lost thier homes The conservatives will kill this country and make themselves rich off the backs of the poor If I wanted a system like they have the US I would have moved there.

    NO I'm with Nexxo on this he's right
     
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  14. theevilelephant

    theevilelephant Well-Known Member

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    The problem is if you remove something like the NHS then there would be plenty of people who would have "earned it" who then wouldn't have access to it. If you keep it then there are going to be people who haven't "earned it" but will use it. Personally I would rather the first option than the second.

    Also how do I know when I have "earned it"? If I was say 19 and had worked since I was legally allowed to and then got run over, would I have earned the right to use the NHS? Where do you draw the line?
     
  15. Elton

    Elton Officially a Whisky Nerd

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    Although I'm from the US, I would love to have a system like the NHS. Over in the US, an X-ray costs over a $1k, surgery? $12k. If you can't afford it? You're screwed.

    Over 60% of people in the US are bankrupt due to healthcare, a national healthcare system is a blessing that not many countries have. Just look at the WHO ranking for the US.

    Although I might seem biased, it's one of those things that is absolutely necessary. We do have a right to life after all no?
     
  16. Cthippo

    Cthippo Can't mod my way out of a paper bag

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    Every industrialized country BUT the US has it. We're the only first world coutry that doesn't think people are worth taking care of.
     
  17. Nexxo

    Nexxo * Prefab Sprout – The King of Rock 'n' Roll

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    Can you support that argument with figures?

    I'll give you a clue: compare the UK's international ranking on health outcomes against that on health care spending as % of its GDP. I think you'll find that the NHS is six times cheaper than the US health care system for comparable health outcomes. Don't just assume. Check the facts.

    And what would you have as the alternative? What are the elements that "detract value"? Do you think that a commercial profit-driven system is appropriate for something that is 1. a life necessity and 2. too complex a product/service for consumers to make an informed choice about, often just as they are in a state in which they are least able to do so?
     
  18. b0ng0

    b0ng0 Reddomitlum

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    Whilst the NHS should remain completely free to the public, some reduction could be made. My mum works as a consultant and since 1997 when New Labour came into power, her department (and others) have experienced an influx of more and more managerial staff, more form filling, restrictions and red tape.

    I don't think all Landsley's reforms are good but there is definitely room to streamline the NHS.
     
  19. sp4nky

    sp4nky BF3: Aardfrith WoT: McGubbins

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    For a start, the NHS isn't completely free to the public. Most people have to pay for NHS dentistry and prescriptions.

    Second, I'm not a fan of Labour but they some of the things they did have brought really good improvements to the NHS. Look at the waiting times for elective surgery - before Labour came in some people were waiting 2-3 years for surgery that their doctors said was necessary.
     
  20. Picarro

    Picarro New Member

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    What I would like to see is a privately run healthcare system where the public foots the bill. This has given very positive results in Stockholm.

    The Stockholm university hospital (which is a public hospital) hired a private management, just 10 people who got to streamline and do what they'd like. Patient happiness went up 15%, cost pr. patient went down 10%.
    Private hospitals like in the US are utter bullshizzle for 90% of people. What you need is these kind of hospitals. Run like a business but open to all.
    There are too many paper-pushers and too much red tape in any public hospital. It needs to be cut back.
     

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