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Defiant church won't marry straight couples

Discussion in 'Serious' started by Cthippo, 14 Apr 2006.

  1. Cheap Mod Wannabe

    Cheap Mod Wannabe What's a Dremel?

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    HA ha ha that's so true, and that is why I do not follow any religious group since they are all run by people, and have so much bs in them. I just don't want to associate myself with one group, because then you associate yourself with what they believe in and do. And I don't agree with any of them fully. I though think there might be something more powerful than humans, I don't bother much.
     
  2. Strategy

    Strategy Banned

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    This so called Priest.
     
  3. Krazeh

    Krazeh Minimodder

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    Why? Cos he won't conduct civil marriages? From what I gather he's still willing to conduct religious marriages so I really can't see what rights you think he needs to have removed.
     
  4. FredsFriend

    FredsFriend What's a Dremel?

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    Oh i totally agree with you there, what ever happened to the seperation of religion and state?
     
  5. Uncle Psychosis

    Uncle Psychosis Classically Trained

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    You can "will" anything to anyone. But, if you died and hadn't left a will then your partner, no matter how long term, wouldn't be legally entitled to a bean of your estate.

    Sam
     
  6. Glider

    Glider /dev/null

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    Here in Belgium we have "living-together" contracts, that give partners equal rights, but without the marriage. And the Belgian Government has allready taken steps to ease out the difference between marriage and living together tax wise. Not quite there, but there is progress.

    Guess Belgium is quite revolutionary in contrast to the conservative USA
     
  7. asteroth

    asteroth What's a Dremel?

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    ah ok that makes sense. Belgium seems to be on the right track i reckon.
     
  8. Jumeira_Johnny

    Jumeira_Johnny 16032 - High plains drifter

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    I think that if you look at studies done of children raised by gay parents, the percentage of those kids that end up gay is the same as kids raised by parents not of the same gender. I'll have to look around for the studies, but it seems there is a certain percentage of all populations that is gay, no mattter who raised them, where they were raised or in what religion they were raised. The only real factor is how society treats them and how open they can be about it.
     
  9. f U z ! o N

    f U z ! o N What's a Dremel?

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    well some of the things in the bible dealt with Isrealites at the time and not us if i remember correctly. not too sure though. i treat everyone equally but i am against it because of my belief but im not going to push my belief on anyone.
     
  10. Da_BaCoN

    Da_BaCoN Minimodder

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    But if the whole "women being stoned" deal was just being applied to the Israelites, then so would the whole "gays are bad, mmkay?". In fact, most of the "rules" of Christianity would be thrown out the proverbial window, including the ten comandments.

    It's still just picking and choosing what they like/what society dictates.
     
  11. f U z ! o N

    f U z ! o N What's a Dremel?

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    i'll have to research it and get back to you.
     
  12. Canadian_minx

    Canadian_minx What's a Dremel?

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    Here (in Canada), Gays can marry and are achieving some (but not all) equal rights. Now with a conservitive government (cough)hack(cough) running the scenes it's going to be a rough place to be in parliment. Stephen Harper plans to make Gay marriage an open debate for the house when it was already voted on years ago. >.>

    I, for one, am for gay marriages entirely. I don't really see how it's right to say I can potentally marry, have legal standing in situations with my siginificant other and what not but my closest Gay friends can not.

    As long as they don't fornicate at my door step I'm happy but then again, that does apply to any type of couple.
     
  13. M3G4

    M3G4 talkie walkie

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    Dude, grow the **** up. :rolleyes:
     
  14. Nexxo

    Nexxo * Prefab Sprout – The King of Rock 'n' Roll

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    The whole debate about whether the Church (or any religion) should approve gay marriages rests on two premises:

    1. It is up to religious institutions to approve or disapprove;

    2. Gender is a valid basis on which to judge the legitimacy of marriage.

    Let's start with no. 1. then, shall we?

    Religious institutions undeniably feel a certain ownership of the institution of marriage. Joined in the eyes of the Lord, and all that. But who invented marriage, and what is "marriage" anyway?

    Wikipedia notes that marriage is a relationship between individuals which forms the foundation of a family. It is a socially sanctioned bond in a sexual relationship and offers birth rights to the offspring. Marriage thus can include legal and social as well as cultural/religious elements. In Western societies, marriage has traditionally been understood as a contract between a man (husband) and a woman (wife), while in other parts of the world polygamy has been the most common form of marriage. Usually this has taken the form of polygyny (a man having several wives) but some societies have practised polyandry (a woman having several husbands).

    One society that traditionally did without marriage entirely was that of the Na of Yunnan province in southern China. Sexual liaisons among the Na took place in the form of "visits" initiated by either men or women, each of whom might have two or three partners each at any given time (and as many as two hundred throughout a lifetime). The nonexistence of fathers in the Na family unit was consistent with their practice of siblings and offspring living with their maternal relatives.

    As for who "invented" marriage, given that there is ample historical proof that it existed well before the major religions appeared on the scene, we can safely say that human society did (even certain animals bond for life --more efficient than wasting time and energy on finding a new partner every mating season-- and they have been around a lot longer than us). So religious institutions cannot really lay claim on marriage; it was a socio-economic institution long before then. But given that religion (not belief!) is often an institution for social (and ecomomical) control, it is of course in its interest to high jack this form of socio-economic contracting.

    That marriage is not necessarily a religious institution is recognised in the fact that people can marry legally (sic) without involvement of the Church, and even can live together as married in the eyes of society (on small Channel Islands, where priests might just visit once a year, it was common practice for people to live together before being officially married). So in all reasonablility, although they can choose not to perform the religious ritual of marriage, it is not up to religious institutions to judge the legitimacy of a marriage. That is outside their domain altogether. They have no authority.

    Now about point 2:

    Marriages traditionally do not have to be between man and wife. Some parts of India follow a custom in which the groom is required to marry with an auspicious plant called Tulsi before a second marriage to overcome inauspicious predictions about the health of the husband. However, the relationship is not consummated and thus does not affect their ability to remarry later (this is not a norm found across the entire Indian sub-continent). Other unusual variations include marriage between a living human and a ghost (Taiwan), a living human and a recently-deceased human with whom they were emotionally involved (France), and between a human being and God (Catholic and Orthodox monasticism. In the case of monks, does that mean God is gay? :p ).

    Given these practices, we can ask ourselves: if a man can marry a ghost, deity or even a plant, why not another man (and a woman another woman)? Traditionally marriage was a socio-economic contract in which offspring (heirs and blood lines) were important, but that is much less of an issue now. Some societies function quite happily without a traditional institution of "marriage" whatsoever. So really gender is a rather trivial issue on which to judge the legitimacy of a marriage.
     
  15. Canadian_minx

    Canadian_minx What's a Dremel?

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    Exactly! *applauds*

    ^_^
     

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