Other Do you believe in ghosts?

How often do you hear "Mr John Hanlon was shot in the head, but thankfully the bullet lodged in the 88% that he doesn't use, so he's fine." ALL of the brain is used, not all the time and different lobes and areas do different things. According to a recent Mythbusters (hey, it's hardly peer-reviewed but they can be quite scientific when they try), around 15% of the brain is firing when sitting in quiet space with closed eyes.

Also, I believe the notion that the vast majority of the populace once believed the earth was flat is also bunk.

Actually, I'm on your side. 'Poltergeists' for instance tend to be centred around troubled teens. Now, I'm not for a second saying that people have latent telekinetic powers. But people are capable of some funky shtick when pushed beyond their normal limits.

I honestly believe that we will one day find a rational explanation for many of these phenomena one day. I actually really like the idea that an event is imprinted in one place, like light on photo film. Makes sense for all of the 'lady walks down a hall and disappears' ghosts. Just 'cos we don't understand something now, doesn't mean it can't happen. Nothing remains unexplainable given enough time, it's just nobody is seriously working on 'ghosts', believers think they are spirits of dead folk and skeptics are happy with the 'inexplicable' explanation. Neither are acceptable IMO, I wonder if anyone would give me a research grant to actually study ghosts?

As I and few other have said, this is due to a phenomena known as apophenia. In this case, that would be an example of pareidolia. (Lol, originally I wrote 'paraphilia', something quite different.)

 

typing away with my post, interrupted several times, and then timed-out. next time i'd better not compose my thoughts on the fly!

my position on ghosts and other supernatural stuff is summed up quite aptly by the qualia soup video (one of my faves) so i'm usually just amused when someone states, in effect, "i can't explain something, therefore i can explain it!"

i frequently enjoy a good mystery and find searching for reasonable explanations to actually be exhilarating. sometimes, it's frustrating, of course. there are things in my life that remain unexplainable, but i do not forfeit my skepticism because of that.

shakeyjake, how does one research/study ghosts?

 

There is something that doesn't add up in my head. I am open to the possibility of paranormal or supernatural events. That does not mean I go around saying the cup fell off a table when it must be a ghost.
I am open minded to accept that there MAY be something else out there.
I am also happy to accept that you are not open to that idea, or seek proof.

 

there maybe an infinate number of things... but lets believe in the ones that are likely

 

Have you actually watched the video linked earlier in this thread? Not only do you not appear to grasp what being open minded actually means but by claiming that there must be some sort of supernatural explanation for the events you believe you saw you're being anything but open minded.

 

I find the above tone quite insulting!
Re read my post then allow the words to sink into your head then process them.

.

And yes I did watch the video

Just as a matter of interest would you try to convince the pope that God didn't exist, just because you haven't experienced/don't believe in God.

 

I did read your post and the ones you made preceding it and they don't give the impression of someone who is openminded. Being "open" to the possibility of something which has absolutely no evidence to support it does not make you open minded, especially when you default to that possibility when you find yourself unable to explain something. When something happens that you can't explain accepting that you can't explain it is open minded, claiming it must be something supernatural because you're "open" to that possibility is not open minded.

No, but that's simply because it'd be a complete waste of time. I'd be extremely suprised if the Pope was anywhere near open minded enough to actually critically examine his beliefs in light of rationality, logic and evidence. Also it wouldn't technically be convincing him that God doesn't exist, it'd be convincing him that the likelihood of God existing is pretty low and that most events attributed to God actually have perfectly rational explanations.

 

Neither does "it couldn't be anything I can't explain" LA LA LA I'm not listening *dancing round the room with fingers in your ears*
Everything must be able to be explained. I don't know what the explanation is for what happened to me. I have had plenty of other experiences which have been strange, that I do not "default to that possibility" as I know there must be other explanations, radios going on in the middle of the night in empty rooms, I don't think that is anything supernatural, there must me some reason to do with power fluctuations or something. Neither do I watch Most Haunted or anything like that, because I am sceptical and don't hold much credence in what they say. However I did experience something that I can not explain. I am not saying "Ooohhh it must be ghosts, everyone come join my cult" I am saying that I can't explain it, I am willing to accept that it MAY be something supernatural, not that it MUST be something supernatural.
And there is a very big difference between may and must!

 

Have you sincerely considered the possibility that all of the people present were deceived or mistook the natural for the supernatural?

Your writing is such a mess that I struggled to follow your argument here, but it sounds like you're citing the flat earth theory as an example of peoples' unwillingness to change their minds on things until science forces them to. Unfortunately, your example works against you: the flat earth theory was steadily marginalized by science, but so has the supernatural been similarly marginalized. There is absolutely no corroborating evidence or scientific confirmation of anything supernatural.

You can't have it both ways. Is science an authority, according to you, or not? Either (1) it is, and both the flat earth theory and the supernatural are absurd, or (2) it isn't, and we should take the flat earth theory as seriously as the notion of ghosts.

 

After living in leasingham hall for quite a lot of my childhood, i can say that whilst i dont believe in ghosts i do believe that theres 'something' out there.

Its very easy for people to simply dismiss things like this but spend a week living in that house and you'll struggle to explain why it feels so uncomfortable to live in.

 

Wow now you are really getting personal "my writing is such a mess"
Oh well I won't waste my time writing anymore! FFS

 

I don't think I ever claimed that would be open minded, nor do I think that anyone here is doing that.

No, everything must have an explanation, that doesn't necessarily mean that we have to be able to explain it tho.

Of course you're not going to default to the possibility of supernatural influence when facing an experience for which you can find a rational explanation. The whole point of the comment was about the actions taken when faced with an experience for which you can't find a rational explanation, either at the time the experience occured or at a later date.

That is not the impression your previous posts in this thread have given. You started by stating that the story you described made you begin to believe in ghosts and that your personal experiences have led you to believe there is something out there. Something for which you have no evidence or real explanation for. You then continued to reinforce the impression that you were attributing a supernatural basis to your experience by disputing statements made by other posters about the lack of evidence of ghosts and asking for these people to provide an alternative explanation for what you saw. None of this however changes the fact that being "open" to ideas with zero evidence for them as a means to explain something you haven't yet been able to explain does not make someone open minded.

 

Welcome to the internet, collect your free skin lotion to the left

When you've nursed your pride a bit, please do return to the actual debate, though, because this topic interests me.

 

THIS.
Exactly what I was thinking!

 

Science is magic in the eyes of those who dont comprehend it. Just like how lightning was the art of Zeus, the greek god, in ancient Greece, or Eclipses being seen as the end of the world when my country first saw one. Maybe everything about ghosts, spirits and everything else have a rational explanation, but not in this time?

 

Another interesting point to note is that religious claims and supernatural claims are epistemically equal; if you believe in the spiritual supernatural (a la ghosts of dead relatives) but not in religion, you're a hypocrite. The supernatural has been experienced by millions of people all over the world; so has God. The supernatural has a ton of peripheral evidence and eyewitness accounts; so does God (or Gods, or Allah, or Yahweh, take your pick). Either both are plausible, or neither are.

A lot of modern supernatural hopefuls find that hard to swallow, but the logic in both cases is equal. I actually find religion less irritating, simply because it contributes more to culture; it's got awesome narratives, big characters, and resounding messages and morals. All the ghostly supernatural offers us is "yo, your grandma might come back and scare you shitless sometimes", which is boring.

 

...until the year 2010 and ghost boxing is invented!

 

Ahh, a QI fan I see.

 

Indeed.

I just read through this entire thread and the anecdotal evidence was pretty strong in my eyes, of course you always have to be carefull of exaggeration and delirium in these cases.

All I'm going to say is that I've lived for most of my life in a house that used to be part of Station XX, as some of you will know Station X is the compound commonly known as Bletchley Park. Of course the operation that was run where we were was not on the same scale but it was alledgedly used to train Polish resistance fighters during WWII, something that should have a strong "spiritual connection". I never experienced anything out of the ordinary there apart from one occassion when I felt a chill while walking through the kitchen in the middle of a power cut and I've never heard my parents or my syblings mention anything either.

There's also a tree ring in the woods that the neighbours own which I will have to check out again at some point.

I did lie when I said that we had had no unnatural experiences as there was one time we were walking the dogs in said woods, standing in a clearing and throwing sticks for them, when a large black animal about the size of a large dog ran past at considerable pace just metres away from us. It was in good light and everyone reported seeing it (although I don't remember the dogs doing anything which is a bit odd). Of course this is most likely an alien big cat (quite possibly one known as the beast of bucks). I also recall seeing a deer carcass in a tree at some point.

 

I have as much belief in ghosts as I do faith in the invisible sky man.