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Steam DotA 2

Discussion in 'Gaming' started by Loafers, 15 Aug 2011.

  1. Loafers

    Loafers What's a Dremel?

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  2. knuck

    knuck Hate your face

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    I doubt this will be a success. Valve or not, this will be looked at as a rip off of LoL, which itself is a rip off of the original dota (duh)

    It does look good though :thumb:
     
  3. vdbswong

    vdbswong It's a Hedgehod

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    I disagree, i think it'll take a lot of the HoN community and some of the LoL community who are fed up with Riot. Not to mention with Valve backing it, it'll draw a lot of players attention who haven't heard of DotA before, whereas i'd say League is still relatively unknown.

    I'll definitely be following the game, but after trying HoN, i find that i prefer LoL's mechanics infinitely more, so unless there's some change in the gameplay i doubt i'll switch over. In fact, i'd probably be more interested in League's new Dominion mode, but i'll be sure to at least try this out if it's Free-to-Play (i can't really see it not being F2P).

    One thing that's nice to see is that they've taken League's "bar" system to separate out (what i assume) are 100HP intervals. One of the thing that annoyed me with HoN was that i couldn't tell roughly how much HP someone without having to click on them... in a teamfight it just got even messier. (I assume original DotA didn't have it, since removing it for HoN seems absolutely ridiculous).

    Also, can someone explain the first two screenshots as i'm trying to make sense of them, do certain champions have 6 skills?
     
  4. Loafers

    Loafers What's a Dremel?

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    I agree. There are many unhappy HoN players like myself who feel the game has diverged too much from DotA or are just unhappy towards S2 in general.

    For LoL, I've heard of it being too passive, some imba flash ability, no voip and other features that are lacking.

    Although Valve is coming late in the game, they do have the advantage of building upon the success, and failures of pre existing mobas.

    I never noticed that until now :D, but now that you do mention it, it does indeed seem like a very useful feature.

    All DotA heroes have 4 skills, 1 of which is an ultimate. Some skills have different effects and to accommodate this, more skills are added.

    For instance the second screenshot shows Shadow Fiend. His first ability is a aoe spell. However, three skills are shown because each one has a different range.
     
  5. b0ng0

    b0ng0 Reddomitlum

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    It depends how they're selling it: either as a one-off purchase or LoL style where you can unlock stuff for cash. They already have the MannCo store in TF2, I wouldn't be suprised if they just monkied this for DotA 2 (given how much of a success the store in TF2 has become).

    I think it's hard to say how it looks just from some static screenshots without any abilities effects or character animations. The proof, as they say, is in the MOBApudding, and this pudding is drizzled with hot custard.

    Roll on Wednesday, can't wait to see the livestream. I really enjoyed watching the last LoL tourny.
     
  6. soviet_

    soviet_ Bantros

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    Looks very pretty, backgrounds are like a painting. Never played the original or LoL but will give this a go and there's probably going to be a lot of people doing the same as me
     
  7. Sloth

    Sloth #yolo #swag

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    Funny, I always hated the health bars in LoL. :hehe: Adds a little more guess work and danger without them. Will that ult really finish him off? Can I really take this guy 1v1?

    Can definitely see both sides of the coin, though. Knowing at a glance roughly what your opponent's health is and them knowing yours adds its own level of strategy.

    Not sure if there's a LoL equivalent yet, haven't kept up with new heroes much, but have you happened to play Soulstealer on HoN? The one in the screenshot is pretty much the same character. "Q" is actually three different spells activated with Q, W, and E to make different effects (small AoE spell damage at different ranges). "E" and "W" are both passive to allow this. R behaves like normal.

    A couple other HoN characters like Silhouette and Maliken make use of the same mechanic.

    Having never played original DotA my complaints aren't with the gameplay, I think HoN's a lot of fun, but S2 is trash imo and would gladly play a Valve game instead.

    The way they're running the F2P system just isn't right imo. Early Access heroes are a scam, gold coins only to buy and restricted from general use for a month. And the regular items are terribly priced, the new Hellbringer skin is 3000 silver coins. At the current rate of coin gain you're looking at 200+ games (15 minute minimum games, 30 average) to save up enough for one skin. Compare that other skins which cost as little as 260 silver coins. They're blatantly exploiting the "cool" skins by all but forcing people to use gold coins (which cost real money).
     
    Last edited: 15 Aug 2011
  8. Digi

    Digi The not-so-funny Cockney

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    I can't get worked up about this. I played LoL for a long while and it's just boredom incarnate. Maybe some more variety in maps/gameplay modes would be nice.
     
  9. Loafers

    Loafers What's a Dremel?

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    I don't know much about LoL, but I do know DotA has a LOT of modes. ap, ar, sd, bd, dm, etc. All pick, all random, single draft (basically your given 3 heroes to choose from each of which has a different stat as their primary), banning draft (team captains get to ban heroes before players pick), and death match (you drop your items upon dying).

    It's not official, but I've heard of different maps and gameplay modes:

     
  10. Sloth

    Sloth #yolo #swag

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    Looking closer a few little things start standing out. For one, the map looks to be very similar to original DotA/HoN, but the well seems a little far back. In HoN there's trees behind the well and it's very close to the ancient. Makes me wonder where the well defenses will be placed, at the entrance to the "well enclave" or in the back with the well itself.

    Another odd one, the neutral creep spots are all marked the same. Maybe all neuts will be of the same difficulty and give the same gold? Or perhaps they don't want people to know the difficulty of each? Or they just haven't gotten around to making different colored icons yet? So much speculation.
     
  11. vdbswong

    vdbswong It's a Hedgehod

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    To each his own really then :p.

    It's just an extra layer of... "action" in order to get the knowledge. It works for my own team as well, maybe this guy who's at 50% HP and is getting ganked actually has more HP than i thought and i should go help him out. Or maybe the Carry/Support getting ganked at 100% we should just leave him etc.

    And lastly in teamfights it just helps in massive clusterf**ks where you can't distinguish health bars from each other, you just click on the squishiest one. It's not so much a lack of skill not being able to identify who's HP bar is whom's, just an annoyance :p.

    Ah, i get what you mean, thanks for clearing that up. I have briefly played Soulstealer but no, there isn't a LoL equivalent.

    Does that mean:

    Denying will be in the mode, but you don't "miss out" on the EXP it normally denies (only gold for not getting the kill).

    No Denying.

    That in other modes Denying will actually make you "lose" EXP? From what i gathered, denying normally gives you reduced EXP, so you don't necessarily "lose" EXP, you just don't get as much as you would have done.
     
  12. Sloth

    Sloth #yolo #swag

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    In teamfights I see where you're coming from, it can get pretty crazy in HoN, particularly since all of the health bars are the same color regardless of team. :duh: I'm guilty of a few wasted ults/abilities trying to kill that guy with only a little bit of health left (or so it looked) only to realize my mistake: that was a tank and even with a small percentage he had enough to live!

    If it's anything like HoN's Casual Mode it's not "losing" EXP, that's just an odd phrasing for it. Denied creeps give full experience, the only advantage is pulling the lane back by killing off the creeps faster, and preventing the enemy from last hitting.

    On an side note, I love denies. Every game I aim to deny 20+ creeps to raise my average. Support? Denying is a must, pulls back your lane and helps your carry farm. Mid? Denies are critical here, mid can make or break a game and taking every advantage while denying every advantage for your enemy is a must. Tank? During the laning phase they aren't too different from a support and should deny. Carries? Last hits take a priority but one should never pass up a deny. A carry who's willing to deny frees up their support to harrass. Carries often hit harder and attack faster anyway. There have been games where I've surpassed the total denies of the other nine players in the game, usually as a carry simply because they're so good at killing creeps, friendly or not.
     
    Last edited: 15 Aug 2011
  13. soviet_

    soviet_ Bantros

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  14. vdbswong

    vdbswong It's a Hedgehod

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    Don't even get me started on the same coloured Health bars... as a complete newbie to the game i had no clue whether or not a person in a teamfight was an ally. Took me ages to figure out it was to do with the 1 pixel border of the HP bars.

    Conceptually i like denies, i had quite a lot of fun denying creeps (and the satisfying sound it makes), however on a... "lore" perspective i agree with LoL that it doesn't make sense that you'd be executing your own creeps (aren't you supposed to be on their side?).

    I do think that denying would help break up the stale "farm farm farm" situation that's been building up in LoL, and also it would also help when you 1v2 "zone" a character, but still push simply because last hitting invariably outdamages minion damage (i.e. your AA still does more damage and pushes faster than letting minions kill each other).

    And on another note, that's not a bad Trailer, although i guess since i never grew up with DotA and don't know the characters, i'm not quite as hyped as others may be.
     
  15. Loafers

    Loafers What's a Dremel?

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    Edit: oops someone beat me to the trailer!

    Farming is also an issue in HoN where some players will be too passive.

    The great thing about DotA is their gold mechanic.

    They have two types of gold: reliable and unreliable. One of which is earned from killing other players and one from farming respectively. Dying doesn't take away your reliable gold, which is intended to foster more ganking. A great balance of HoN and LoL imo.
     
    Last edited: 16 Aug 2011
  16. rogerrabbits

    rogerrabbits New Member

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    Same. I never played LoL or the original DoTA, but I played HoN a lot, and it got boring pretty fast. Most games are in the same one map, and the variety of heroes is just not enough to keep me playing for a long time. It was a fun little distraction while I had nothing else to play, but I just didn't find it deep enough to keep playing. And the fact that the other players are absolutely vile, didn't help.
     
  17. wyx087

    wyx087 Homeworld 3 is happening!!

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    played DOTA once due to housemates game were 1 person short. hated every second of it, had no clue what to do, people were shouting at me for doing things wrong. and my hero person kept getting killed by enemy hero who seems to be impossible to kill (aka stupid RPG elements)

    screenshots here seems strange, view is way too zoomed in. i always thought this is more of a strategy game with RPG elements attached, rather than Alien Swamp type action game.......
     
  18. vdbswong

    vdbswong It's a Hedgehod

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    I never realised there were two types of gold, thanks for the clarification.

    I personally thought that it would be the other way round (i.e. what you farm is what you keep) although i now see why it would encourage ganking.

    Another thing i think contributes to the LoL problem is that i've "heard" that Towers in HoN and DotA don't level up, which means as the game goes on they're practically ignorable. As such, in LoL there's a distinct safety in sitting under a tower unless there's a really fed character who can burst you down Full -> Dead or you're heavily outnumbered.

    One man's "stupid" RPG elements...etc. etc. ;).

    Anyhow, i agree that the community in the genre is mindnumbingly terrible and something that needs to be addressed. It gets better as you level up in League (and matched with more experienced players) but it never truly goes away.

    Most recently i was in Champion Select for a Ranked Game and my friend picked a Tank (which we needed) but wasn't known as a "viable pick" at high ELO (at our ELO, player skill > viable champions, not to mention, he's very decent at that champion and i trust him with it). As such our Team Captain then declared the game lost, changed his summoner spells (to worthless ones) and declared he would feed the entire match because of it - very mature and all. Anyhow thankfully someone dodged that game (at the expense of some ELO - thank you kind person) and i got put in another match, with a decent communicating team and we subsequently won.

    I thought that initially too, however assumed it was just because they zoomed in on the character slightly. The third screenshot is probably more representative of the actual camera distance.

    Also, i wouldn't really call the game "strategy" at all... more akin to Real-Time-Tactics. It's more about how you play and what you do, rather than managing resources and building upgrades etc.
     
  19. Sloth

    Sloth #yolo #swag

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    And then once you figure that out you get to boggle your mind with player colors. Similar colors like yellow and orange? Opposite teams! One of those DotA relics that really serves no purpose which S2 stupidly kept. Thankfully they also kept the WC3 option to turn all colors to red and green. Glad to see that DOTA2 drops the color nonsense.

    It really doesn't make sense. I particularly like HoN's Plague Rider who can kill a friendly creep to restore his mana. If he has the ability to consume whole creeps surely he would want to consume enemy creeps?

    But then this is a game where two factions which seem to hate each other for no reason build bases in close proximity to each other with roads running straight towards each other and just about everything in the game seems to be carrying gold coins which inexplicably only get dropped when a player kills them. Who knows what "sense" is supposed to mean. :hehe:

    Never played DotA either, but did notice one that looks like HoN's Slither. Didn't know he was ripped of from DotA, stoked to see he (or something similar) will be in the game.
     
  20. vdbswong

    vdbswong It's a Hedgehod

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    I'm afraid i've lost you here :(.

    Haha, i can see us pissing off the masses of DotA vets here...

    "Hey look, that archer's ability was just like Ashe's Enchanted Crystal Arrow!" (it was probably implemented in DotA first :p).

    + Did my eyes deceive me, or did some Knight like figure turn into a Dragon at the end ?
     

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