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Draw Mohammed Day

Discussion in 'Serious' started by ch424, 13 May 2010.

  1. ch424

    ch424 Design Warrior

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    I object to this.

    I appreciate that it is a protest in favour of free speech, and I agree with its motives. I would be hugely upset if the 200th South Park episode hadn't been broadcast. It made the point about censorship of Mohammed's image and stupid over-reaction to it very well. If you've not seen it, the general gist is that all the celebrities who've been ridiculed by South Park get together and demand to meet Mohammed because he's the only person invulnerable to satire. There's then huge hysteria amongst the regular cast that the world will end when Mohammed appears. The episode was broadcast, and Stone/Parker received a few death threats, but didn't really care, and that was the end of it. It was funny, it made a good point, and it didn't offend anyone unnecessarily.

    On the other hand, I view the 'draw Mohammed day' protest as childish. It'd be like wearing the Cradle of Filth 'Jesus is a c**t' t-shirt (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:BGCTCF15.jpg) as a protest against the Pope's AIDS denialism. It just provokes offense and alienates people without really making a sensible point.

    My other objection to it is the fear of mis-interpretation that Stewart Lee talks about for the first three minutes of this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGAOCVwLrXo As far as I can make out, the Mohammed cartoons were mostly drawn by racist old people who don't have a valid point to make. In a lot of the cartoons, he's wearing a Sikh turban, which demonstrates the ignorance of the people involved.

    There are a lot of things in Islam that people should object to and protest against, but drawing unfunny cartoons to be provocative isn't a good way to go about it. The freedom to draw those cartoons should be defended, but through genuinely amusing/insightful things like the South Park episode above. There's enough mistrust of muslims in this country without idiots making it worse.


    What does everyone else think?
     
  2. Krazeh

    Krazeh Well-Known Member

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    I think if someone wants to arrange a "draw mohammed day" then they're completely free to do so. Religion is open to as much ridicule as anything else, and doesn't deserve any sort of special protection because it's been around for a while.

    As for ignorant people getting involved, that's part and parcel of anything, there'll always be ignorant people around but that shouldn't be used as an excuse for preventing people from doing something.
     
  3. ch424

    ch424 Design Warrior

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    Yeah, but that's not the point I'm making. The guy organising this is welcome to go ahead with it. I wouldn't advocate stopping him. I just think it's counter-productive.
     
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  4. Krazeh

    Krazeh Well-Known Member

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    To be honest that's not how your first post comes across. The way it's phrased makes it sound like you feel it should be prevented from going ahead and that was certainly the impression I got when reading it. It may be useful if you more fully clarify what you exact point about it is. Do you think it's wrong? Are you against it? Do you merely feel it's counter-productive but have no other issues with it?
     
  5. Edge102030

    Edge102030 Son, i am disappoint.

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    Sign me up for that, the people in that mob are tyrannical about something based around someone they can't prove exists and think they can take us (people they have never even met they want to effect massively) back to medieval times in terms of freedom of speech and the freedom of the people.
     
  6. specofdust

    specofdust Banned

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    I don't imagine I'll bother to take part, but it's a good idea. The ultimatum of "free speech or protected religion" needs to be realised by those in the western world.
     
  7. sotu1

    sotu1 Ex-Modder

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    Free speech is a beautiful ideal, easily abused.

    Yes, he can go ahead with this, but it will cause a helluva lot more problems than it solves. Besides, what is the exact purpose of this? What does he hope to achieve? A more peaceful world? More aggro?

    Personally I think is it plain stupid and ignorant.
     
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  8. thehippoz

    thehippoz New Member

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    I dunno they have the right to be ignorant as well.. ignorance is bliss.. easier to believe in something simple than try to learn and accept there are other ways..

    feeding that isn't going to do any good.. it's like looking a crazy man in the eyes and then wonder why you got stabbed.. it doesn't make any sense but you shouldn't be surprised
     
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  9. Sloth

    Sloth #yolo #swag

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    Wat.

    It seems a little counter-productive to ask for more enlightented protests and arguments, then make the generalization that everyone should protest against Islam. Surely Muslims would disagree with that claim, are they not included by "people"?

    Humor is also a matter of taste. Again, where you found the South Park episode to be amusing and insightful, a majority of Muslims likely found it insulting and rude (hence the death threats). Where you find the Draw Mohammed Day cartoons to be unfunny surely the artists and other participants quite enjoy it. Readers of the Sunday paper may prefer Garfield over Dilbert.

    And those 'ignorant' people are over in their camp saying the same thing about the ones calling them such! Ah the beauty of it all! It almost seems as though the point of the whole Draw Mohammed Day is just to prove that they can, even if it's crude and pointless they can.
     
  10. Cerberus90

    Cerberus90 Car Spannerer

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    It was a radical Muslim extremist website that sent the death threats. Although I thought it was just warnings as opposed to death threats.
     
  11. Krazeh

    Krazeh Well-Known Member

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    So because you find some insulting and/or rude you should be able to send death threats?
     
  12. Sloth

    Sloth #yolo #swag

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    I believe death threats are illegal or at least have some legal implications, so no. It's just to show that different people have very, very different thoughts on the same thing. Funny TV show to some, such blasphemy that it provokes extreme responses like death threats to others.
     
  13. specofdust

    specofdust Banned

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    Point is though, under the western morality of free speech, one group of people is in the right and the other is in the wrong. That goes back to my point that people in the west need to realise that freedom of speech can not exist in paralell with protected religion.

    I'm not one to say this often, but if people honestly prefer the latter of those two, they really should just find somewhere else to live.
     
  14. Nexxo

    Nexxo Stopped treating this country as if it was his own

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    I believe in slap therapy. Seriously. There are some people who really deserve a slap. I know there is no scientific basis for that theory, but it feels right.

    The problem with slapping someone who richly deserves it is:
    1. It only makes the world a better place for a very short time;
    2. After that it makes the world a little bit worse;
    3. You're not supposed to be as stupid as the people that deserve slapping.

    I think this kind of fits in the same category. I think that Fundamentalist Religious people are basically stupid. I think that they deserve slapping in touch with reality. But I also know that if I do so, it is not going to make things any better; it makes things slightly worse. Because all you have done is validate their way of thinking. You're just on the opposing side, is all.

    So while freedom of speech is something to be exercised and valued, it is also something to be exercised wisely because it is valued. Sure, we can all have a laugh drawing silly pictures of the Prophet Mohammed, Jesus Christ, God etc. and feel smug (in the way that people do when they think that they truly appreciate alternative comedy) because we don't get wound up about iconoclasm. Because we don't get all wound up about religion, right? Right?

    Yeah, right. How is this different from a baying mob in some Middle Eastern country that we've managed to piss off (again) burning effigies of the US President? How is it different from the Taliban blowing up 2000-year old historically priceless statues of Buddha? I would have liked to think that we can walk the wiser path; not to denigrate what we don't believe in, but to demonstrate the virtue of what we do.

    Instead, we are just a bunch of kids shouting insults at another bunch of kids shouting insults at us. Why don't we draw dicks on images of saints while we're at it and truly demonstrate how mature we are.
     
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  15. supermonkey

    supermonkey Deal with it

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    <snicker> St. Peter? </snicker>

    Sorry...that was bad. I'll get my coat.
     
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  16. Rkiver

    Rkiver Cybernetic Spine

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    I fail to see why religion needs to be handled with kids gloves. Why is it deserving of any respect? If I said the fairies at the end of the garden talked to me, I'd be ridiculed. I see no difference in the belief in some invisible thing in the sky watching us. I respect your right to believe in whatever you wish, but I will not respect what you believe in.

    In short, let people draw Mohammed, let people wear tshirts insulting Jesus, let people wear tshirts insulting ANYTHING if they really want to. I have the right to offend you, you have the right to be offended and walk away.
     
  17. Nexxo

    Nexxo Stopped treating this country as if it was his own

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    Let me rephrase that last sentence: I have the right to offend you, you have the right to think that I'm an asshole. Now, if I behave like an asshole enough, might that perchance start affecting how people relate to me? And am I OK with that?

    A man is defined by his actions, not by his knowledge or his beliefs.
     
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  18. Rkiver

    Rkiver Cybernetic Spine

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    That is another way of looking at it alright Nexxo, no question about that at all.
     
  19. ripmax

    ripmax Active Member

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    Freedom of speech is not for the purpose of insulting a religion/way of thinking without any reason other than you don't like what they belive in. The people that use the freedom of speech argument just for the sole purpose of offending people, are the same type of people who treat people differently/imprison/kill people for not believing in what you belive in.

    If everyone would at least respect other peoples beliefs/views (don't have to like them just respect them) the world would be a better place.
     
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  20. specofdust

    specofdust Banned

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    Freedom of speech is not "for a purpose" - it's a fundamental right that we generally can (and most definitely should) hold to be essential to our very being in the western world.

    Nonsense. The former group is either attempting to be offensive, or attempting to make a point about freedom of speech. This harms no-one. The latter group is attempting to maim or kill people simply because they disagree with them. It is the highest kind of arrogance to suggest that one should be able to harm others because one knows better than them - exactly the kind of ignorance that religion affords its followers. This type of ignorance must be combated, or at the very least religious people in the western world should be assisted in coming to terms with the fundamental division between freedom of speech, and protection of religion.

    In the west we choose freedom of speech over the protection of religion, for a great many sane and rational reasons, and as such, people are free to draw mohammed.

    The world would also be a far stupider place. Not respecting other people's views as being sacrosanct, the way the religious generally want all us non-believers to treat their beliefs, is what allows for progress, in both thought, science, and technology.
     

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