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E.U: Leave or Stay? Your thoughts.

Discussion in 'Serious' started by TheBlackSwordsMan, 22 Feb 2016.

  1. Nexxo

    Nexxo Stopped treating this country as if it was his own

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    And as usual he did it badly.
     
  2. theshadow2001

    theshadow2001 [DELETE] means [DELETE]

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    I think the Czech people are probably better at making Pilsner than proverbs. Or perhaps they combined both when they came up with that one.

    Sitting there reading a book in another language is not going to open your mind any more than sitting there reading the same book in your native language will. Language is a communication tool and is independent of culture. What will really open your mind is going to and meeting other people in other countries or meeting other people from other countries in your own land. What language you use to communicate is incidental and is largely irrelevant as long as you both can communicate.

    I'm not sure why the China thing is relevant. None the less, what is the most spoken second language in China?
     
    Last edited: 30 Jun 2016
  3. Corky42

    Corky42 Where's walle?

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    From your and mine point of view he did but it will go down a storm with Eurosceptics, that's what propaganda is meant to do.
     
  4. Nexxo

    Nexxo Stopped treating this country as if it was his own

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    It's stirring of the masses, which is not enough. That emotion also has to be channelled into a coherent vision to get behind, and he is incapable of creating one. This is why he will never achieve leadership. Already Vote Leave's biggest financial backer is talking about creating a new party, around Brexiteers from the Labour, Conservative and UKIP parties. He is talking about how UKIP grew too fast and has "issues" and he does not see Farage leading it.
     
  5. Corky42

    Corky42 Where's walle?

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    That investment by Siemens seems to have gone poof.

    It was enough to get people voting for brexit, you seem to be coming at what Farage says using logic and your brain, that's not what Farage and his *propaganda is aimed at, it's more emotive than that, it's targeted at baser instincts.

    * I'm using the term propaganda in what i believe is its truest sense.
     
    Last edited: 30 Jun 2016
  6. Nexxo

    Nexxo Stopped treating this country as if it was his own

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    I would strongly disagree. Language is cultural. There are words in one language that have no counterpart in another. Differences in grammar create differences in how people think and how they perceive the world.

    Example: in Britain you only have "you". In Dutch, French, German, Italian, Spanish and Portuguese you have a formal and informal "you". So now you are already thinking about your relationship to that person, status, age etc, In some Asian countries there are various different versions of formal and informal "you" which consider your gender, their gender, your and their age, relative social status, nature of relationship etc.

    On some Polynesian islands there is no spatial "right of" or "left of" or "to the side of"; there is "hubwards of" or "coastwards of". This means that islanders need to have a constant awareness of their spatial orientation relative to their environment and each other.

    In one South American tribe you can't just make an assertion; correct implicit grammar dictates that you state where you got that knowledge from. The forms of grammar are: learnt from first-hand experience, told to me by someone else who learned from first-hand experience, told to me by someone who was told by someone else (who learned from first-hand experience) etc., several layers deep. This creates an instant awareness of what is 'fact' and what is subjective report or point of view and makes it very hard to tell lies.

    Cantonese (the first being Mandarin). English is the third language.
     
  7. Nexxo

    Nexxo Stopped treating this country as if it was his own

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    Well, Hull voted predominantly Leave... /shrug
     
  8. theshadow2001

    theshadow2001 [DELETE] means [DELETE]

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    Given that you've dedicated effort to learn 3 languages, I've no doubt you would disagree.

    A few nice cherry picked examples you have there.

    The French assign random genders to inanimate objects and the Chinese don't have tenses the way we do, they just qualify their verbs with a time frame. So what does that tell us? The French are hyper aware of gender? The Chinese don't have the same priority on time as Europeans? No not really, just that languages evolve differently because they are used to describe the culture not define it.

    Most Chinese people don't speak Cantonese, however most people from the Cantonese region will speak Mandarin. If you want to communicate globally, you need to study the most commonly used second language not the most common native language.

    Edit: And hey look at that, I learned a little bit about Polynesian culture without having to learn the language.
     
    Last edited: 30 Jun 2016
  9. Nexxo

    Nexxo Stopped treating this country as if it was his own

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    It means that I have an opinion based in personal understanding (as well as a professional one as a psychologist, but I know how you feel about appeal to authority).

    They are illustrative examples of my point: languages influence how people think and see the world and communicate. I could tell you many more and throw in some of e.g. Luria's research on the role of language in cognitive development but can't be asked, to be honest. I'm just putting it out there, you don't have to buy it.

    I could also tell you some interesting factoids about sign language. Now that's where things get interesting. :)

    It illustrates that people think subtly differently because of the language they speak. And yes, the Chinese do picture time differently. If I ask you to imagine a timeline, you undoubtedly now picture something going from left to right: an X axis so to speak. The Chinese would visualise a line going from bottom to top, like coming forth from a well. A Y axis.

    I would say that people need to learn another language just to understand that people can have different perspectives and experiences of the world.

    And how did you learn it? Some anthropologist learned this Polynesian language and noted this peculiar difference with his own English language. Had he known only this Polynesian language or only English, he would never have spotted this interesting difference. He then wrote about it and this Dutchman, who also learned English, was then able to read about it and tell you. Thus you learned something today about another culture's way of experiencing the world because two other people know more than one language. :)
     
    Last edited: 30 Jun 2016
  10. Valo

    Valo Active Member

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    There is a fairly well argued link between your neurological makeup and languages you use. I'll refer you to George Lakoff's and Vittorio Gallese's research. The metaphores you use in your language enable new patterns in your thinking. People who speak less than one language tend to have narrower mindset it seems. (this is an intentional lapse, people who speak slavic languages will understand this construction even though it makes little sense in English) Part of the reason it's so well entrenched in British culture (in particular) to do grand tours (and learn other cultures and languages)
     
  11. Nexxo

    Nexxo Stopped treating this country as if it was his own

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    True, but he left the job half-finished. Right now, in this leadership vacuum he helped create, he should be stepping forward with a Brexit plan. Something that sketches out a clear vision and pathway for Britain. His EU 'speech' would have been the prefect opportunity. He would appear to be the only man able to lead the country out of this mess. He would appear strong and visionary where mainstream political parties appear weak and ineffectual. He would be a leader.

    But he didn't and he isn't. He created the vacuum, but he is not stepping in to fill it, and that is a fatal mistake for the aspiring dictator. By September the Conservatives will have closed ranks around their new PM and his window of opportunity will be gone.

    Hitler would roll his eyes; Farage is just a ****ing amateur. He is good at playing opposition, but he has no leadership ability and as far as UKIP is concerned, he is now obsolete.
     
  12. faugusztin

    faugusztin I *am* the guy with two left hands

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    http://www.bbc.com/news/business-36646251

    I can only laugh at reaction of John Redwood.
    Merkel and EU27 says - no access to single market without free movement.
    German Automotive Industry Association says the same.

    MP John Redwood says "I don't think he [Mr Wissman] speaks for the German government.".

    Long story short - German car industry will not save UK's idea of access to single market without free movement.
     
  13. theshadow2001

    theshadow2001 [DELETE] means [DELETE]

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    Everyone knows they won't get access to the single market without free movement. Letting them have that would be a disaster for the EU. The British know it, the EU knows it. It's just a little bit of theatre so their politicians can say "We tried" and they have somewhere to point the finger when they do interviews.

    Edit: I was distracted with real work, so I only skim read that article. It's weird that the car manufacturers are making statements on the single market rather than the government.
     
    Last edited: 30 Jun 2016
  14. Nexxo

    Nexxo Stopped treating this country as if it was his own

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    The Tory leadership will sell the difference between free movement of people (EU) and free movement of labour (EEA) as the immigration "control" that they were looking for. And anyway, as BoJo said, the vote wasn't really about immigration but sovereignty, right?

    And since most people don't really know why they voted anyway, the government can talk them into believing they did it for the 'right' reason.
     
  15. forum_user

    forum_user forum_title

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    Do we really want to be buying all those German cars if the EU are now going to be dicks to us?
     
  16. impar

    impar Well-Known Member

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  17. DXR_13KE

    DXR_13KE BananaModder

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    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: 30 Jun 2016
  18. forum_user

    forum_user forum_title

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    Its 110% a poisoned chalice, and the public will not show love to the person who 'appears' to inflict pain on our society, even though it wont be their fault.

    Its the same as when the Cons took over after Labour. After seeing the backlash they had, who would want the same now?
     
  19. Nexxo

    Nexxo Stopped treating this country as if it was his own

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    Aw, diddums. Germany not treating you like the special little flower you are?

    Yup. He saw the mess he wrought and went: "Nope" and just walked away. Brexit is fail.

    And it totally is their fault. They made promises that they were not in a position to make and knew couldn't possibly be kept. And now the time has come to deliver them he just walks away. But that's fine, because it strengthens the position of those who wanted to stay in the EU. Vote Leave is not going to deliver; they have no plan, now they don't even want to "take control".
     
    Last edited: 30 Jun 2016
  20. rainbowbridge

    rainbowbridge Well-Known Member

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    Bbc just pushed it out via alert service (iPhone)

    Boris (the blond guy) is not standing and does not want to be the next PM.

    Right there is a issue.. Why cause all this then not stand to push it through, he must have some ability he was London mayor for Petra sake.

    what a time to live through English politics.
     

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