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E.U: Leave or Stay? Your thoughts.

Discussion in 'Serious' started by TheBlackSwordsMan, 22 Feb 2016.

  1. rainbowbridge

    rainbowbridge Well-Known Member

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    Lol good one.
     
  2. Corky42

    Corky42 Where's walle?

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    He knows better than that, if he stepped forward he'd be done for, leadership of the UK is a poison chalice and will remain that way for a good few years, much better to come riding to the rescue when the public feel they've truly be let down by the establishment, there's just to much hope out there ATM that needs to be dashed.

    No surprise there, getting elected at this point in time would be like putting a gun to your head.
     
  3. DXR_13KE

    DXR_13KE BananaModder

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    About the language thing, genders are not applied randomly in languages that have them for objects, it depends on the last letters of the name and the way it sounds, a Portuguese example would be Bolo (cake) and Bola (ball), male and female, this was once used by Portuguese feminists to prove that Portuguese was sexist and patriarchal, the issue was that female objects are "usualy" things that you hit.
    The gender for objects kind of follows the conventions for names (male, female), João, Joana, Manuel, Maria, Jorge, Jeorgina, Silvio, Silvia, Octavio, Octavia, Fabio, Fabia, Julio, Julia, Alberto, Albertina. Notice the pattern? A ending = female, O ending = male, E ending... depends on the rest of the word. Its kind of like syllables, there is no algorithm to define what a sylable is, but you implicitly know what it is after someone teaches you.

    Also that Polynesian thing also happens with Portuguese from Madeira island, especially among the older generations, they usually indicate up and down as directions inside the house, "move that sofa up" means move the sofa in a direction that leads you to the mountains. We also call our potatoes "semilha" instead of "batata". Why? Because when the first potatoes came to this island they came in used sacks of seeds (semilha in Spanish) from Spain. People did not know the name for this thing and assumed that "semilha" was it. the consequence is that if you ask for a "batata" you get a sweet potato.

    There are words that exist on other languages and not in English, one of them is Saudade: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saudade

    Language is weird and fun.
     
  4. forum_user

    forum_user forum_title

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    You can gloss over it. But the debate is there to be had. I would love to be a fly on the wall for the negotiations. Although if it were a team lead by the undecisive and rather horizontal Corbyn I'd end up moving to Australia before we all ended up sucking EU anus through a straw.
     
  5. Anfield

    Anfield Well-Known Member

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    Indeed, he is busy drooling at the prospect of his "told you so" speech for when it all goes to sh**.
     
  6. faugusztin

    faugusztin I *am* the guy with two left hands

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    Point was that Brexiters always said "Don't worry, German car export is so big to UK that they will force EU via Merkel to get what UK wants, single market without free movement". Now the German car industry said "no such thing", and brexiter MP says "well, who the hell this car industry guy thinks he is". 2 days later, whole EU27 says the same thing, except some French minister saying something about "everything is on the table in these negotiations", and Brexiters are like "who the hell are these EU27 leaders, see, the french minister says we can have what we want". :D
     
  7. loftie

    loftie Well-Known Member

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    I can't see the EU being dicks to us, it'll make them look bad. But that doesn't mean they will bend over backwards to accommodate us especially after we just took a dump in their garden. And then farage p***ed on their family members. I imagine the negotiations would go like this

    UK: We'd like to...
    EU: No.
    UK: How about...
    EU: No.
    UK: Not even...
    EU: No.
    UK: What choices do we have?
    EU: A, B or C.
    UK: We don't want those.
    EU: Tough, take it or leave it.

    And since they'll only start negotiations after article 50, they probably think we'll be clamouring to get things sorted and they'll be far more relaxed giving them more negotiating power.
     
  8. Nexxo

    Nexxo Stopped treating this country as if it was his own

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    I would say you're right, except that his little performance in the EU does not suggest such ability of forethought.
     
  9. Corky42

    Corky42 Where's walle?

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    I think you underestimate him, most of what he says isn't directed at the likes of you and I.
     
  10. faugusztin

    faugusztin I *am* the guy with two left hands

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  11. theshadow2001

    theshadow2001 [DELETE] means [DELETE]

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    Sure maybe you do have an opinion based in personal understanding. Or you may just be so invested that it doesn't matter what the reality is. Its all possible.

    I envisage such a timeline because I've studied maths and engineering where time on the X-Axis is the most common presentation. Nothing to do with the language I used to study those subjects. I imagine most Chinese who've studied similar subjects would draw it this way and even if they did put it on the Y axis, that has nothing to do with their language.

    The point is, it doesn't matter what language is used the same cultural information can be transmitted. Theoretically the polynesian could have learned English and told whatever anthropologist. Or they could both speak a tertiary language neither of them speak natively. Cultural nuances aren't dependent on language, they can be translated and explained. Language is just an inefficient way of arranging and transmitting information.

    We are getting way off point though. Whilst its cute that you romanticise what a language is and means, ultimately it is a utility. One that takes a considerable time and mental investment and usually requires you spending significant amounts of time in a native speaking country to become proficient at. With respect to the EU there's little payback for that effort if everyone else already speaks your native language and the language you choose to learn will only facilitate communication with members of one of the 27 countries. If on the other hand you were say Spanish and only spoke Spanish, learning English would allow you to communicate not only with English, Irish, Scottish and Welsh but the Germans, French the Italians and so on and so on. Hence a very large payback for the effort put in.

    I'm sure other things we learn such as music art mathematics and so on, all play a part in our neurological makeup. It's hardly surprising that learning things affects how we think. That's the purpose of learning after all.
     
    Last edited: 30 Jun 2016
  12. Gareth Halfacree

    Gareth Halfacree WIIGII! Staff Administrator Super Moderator Moderator

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    Speaking of languages, I installed Duolingo on my phone yesterday. Already several lessons in to learning German, with such useful phrases as "Die Kinder sind jung" and "Du Bär isst Eier."
     
  13. theshadow2001

    theshadow2001 [DELETE] means [DELETE]

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    Does that mean things didn't work out with the Canadians?

    Is that the app where you send messages to Native speakers. If its the one I'm thinking of it seems like a nice learning tool.
     
  14. Nexxo

    Nexxo Stopped treating this country as if it was his own

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    It's how he said it. Too much egocentrism. Dictatorship 101: you are a mirror for the people to project their desires on. You must appear strong and visionary, not riddled with personal insecurities.

    There's a difference between rousing people and creating a movement. He can do the former but shows no ability to do the latter.
     
  15. DXR_13KE

    DXR_13KE BananaModder

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    theshadow2001 in reality if you learn one of the Romance languages you can understand with quite a few other languages. Two of them are among the most spoken languages in the world. If you only know English you can basically double the amount of people you can communicate with around the world.

     
  16. Corky42

    Corky42 Where's walle?

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    From my perspective that exactly what he did, at least it is when i take my thinking head off.

    The brexit vote says otherwise. :)
     
  17. Nexxo

    Nexxo Stopped treating this country as if it was his own

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    No, all westerners visualise it like that, whether they studied math or not. As do all Chinese tend to visualise a vertical line.

    The point is that neither would have become aware of this fundamental difference in world representation between the two people unless they had learned another language. Basically people do not fully become aware of their own culture until they are exposed to another. Language is an aspect of culture.

    It's cute that you dismiss the entire literary arts in one fell swoop.

    No, it's deeper than that. Language plays a role in the development of theory of mind, self-regulation of emotion and behaviour, reasoning, planning, problem solving, world representation.
     
  18. Nexxo

    Nexxo Stopped treating this country as if it was his own

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    Not quite. It's the difference between "You tell them!" and "You tell us!".

    That's not a movement. If it was people would not be so confused and aimless right now, waiting for a government to get its **** together and tell them what to do next.

    Frankly the government should just have the balls to say that the referendum was always just advisory, that they will take the result under consideration but Vote Leave made promises they were not in a position to make and are not deliverable, so it's up to the government to take this forward and see what really can be done.
     
  19. theshadow2001

    theshadow2001 [DELETE] means [DELETE]

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    Ok, is your point that different cultures are different or.....?

    Yes you need a common language to communicate. That is obvious. It doesn't however demonstrate that language is a part of culture.

    Calling paint a utility doesn't dismiss visual art, calling an instrument a utility doesn't dismiss the artistry of music. Referring to language as a utility doesn't dismiss the literary arts.

    Or perhaps they are cultural aspects and the language is incidental.
     
  20. Corky42

    Corky42 Where's walle?

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    Sorry you've lost me, what does You tell them!" and "You tell us!" have to do with Farage and your assertion that he's an egocentric person with who has no leadership ability and lacks forethought?

    Yes it was, it was a group that operated together to obtain a political goal, sure they had other goals but their main raison d'être was to leave the EU and they achieved that.

    To soon to do something like that, it would need the populaces to feel the pain and start regretting their choice before they'd accept a U-turn.
     

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