E.U: Leave or Stay? Your thoughts.

May as well post it

 

Yeah, kind of funny how the new independent UK needs import skills from abroad to do its hard work for it.

Plus ça change...

In any case Whitehall is turning to business to hire skilled negotiators, as it realises that it needs 700 of them rather than the 20 it has now. Response has been mixed. One firm stated it was happy to help, but did mention that skilled staff will cost money. Several others said that they are already too tied up trying to negotiate on behalf of their own clients caught in the Brexit fallout. Another said that staff do not relish being seconded to Whitehall and in any case the government should wake up and smell reality and realise that they are going up against 560 highly experienced EU negotiators who eat, breathe and live EU regulations, and that they should try and get their own British staff back from Brussels to advise them.

It's going to be slaughter, basically.

 

As a brief aside, did anyone watch Panorama this evening?

Here's a tip: do not if you value low blood pressure.

 

I def think we should start posting valid informative posts, as much as we love hearing each other moan and opinonate, there is a chuck of information out there we can get into the thread to try to process this huge change.

ill go with this...

Reason for posting:
Alan Greenspan was stating this is just the tip of the iceberg 24th June here (corrosive effect)

http://www.cnbc.com/2016/06/24/alan...k-from-eu-is-just-the-tip-of-the-iceberg.html

27th Bloomberg full interview here:



Side note:
Time voted him into the 25 People to Blame for the Financial Crisis (melt down).
http://content.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,1877351_1877350_1877331,00.html

 

Just FYI, UK was already on "basic level" of EU participation, unlike the rest of EU.

1) UK paid less than they should have (the Thatcher deal)
2) UK was not required to join Euro currency.
3) UK was not required to join Schengen area.
4) UK had a partial opt-out of "Charter of Fundamental Rights of the European Union".

UK was already at bottom scale of EU participation.

 

There is one step lower, being out of the EU.

 

Man votes out because people come in and do a job cheaper that he does and they happen to be eastern european. Did it occur to him that regardless of their origins, they may not have 6 kids to care for so of course they can work for less and get by. Not really an immigration issue.

Lack of services - immigration definitely a contributing factor if new services cannot keep up with demand, but I thought funding for services were being cut back? If so, that's a problem with the government not the EU.

Woman mentions high street filled with shops - really? The internet arrived, that's why your local shops vanished.

Losing our Britishness. I've never had a sense of Britishness, i mean what is it? What do we do as a country that's 'british'? What could we do that's 'British'? Celebrate our patron saints I suppose, but we seem a bit busy with St Patrick's.

Business man is fed up with red tape, but doesn't expect there to be more red tape after we leave?

They want industry to return. Surely China/India can produce everything vastly cheaper than we can, even if the pound tanks. I'm sure they're all only buying items made in britan.

I can't actually understand the guy at the end all that well, did he really expect real change in 3 years?

"It can't get any worse." Oh boy. It could always get worse.

I think I heard mention of a Brexit Tonight program on ITV.

 

I believe this may deserve a thread of it's own

 

I get the feeling Farage never intended to do anything other than get Britain out of the EU, that's whats been driving him for the last 25 years, if i had to guess I'd say he felt the EU had treated him (personally) unfairly or that he took offense to something he saw as their doing, since that day hes held a grudge against the EU and wanted nothing more than to hurt them like he believes they hurt him.

For the last 25 years Farage has been acting like a jilted boyfriend with an axe to grind.

Boris on the other hand is a more complex beast, I'm not sure if he's living out his old rivalry with Cameron from their bullingdon days or if he has grander designs, if he really has a thirst for power or just want to be popular.

I did, and i was left thinking much the same thoughts as loftie.
It's interesting to understand some of the reasons people voted leave, not that i agreed with their conclusion on where the problem lies, it was very much X is a problem, that's the EU that is, Y's a problem, that's the EU that is.

What stayed with me those most is people saying how it can't get any worse.

That's something i could get on-board with if they were sleeping on the streets and eating out of rubbish bins but the fact is they're not, sure things are tough but that's what happens when there's a recession, when there's austerity, when government cuts spending, when you have 6 children.

^^This^^ is what made the vote to leave so galling for me, we were the sweetheart of the EU and people voted to throw that all away in some misguided (IMO) scream of rage and frustration against the man.

I whole heatedly agree with the rest of your post but i wanted to highlight this part specifically.

Every time i see people say this i want to scream, it's like they're living in some kind of bubble, they can't see the roof over their head, the water on tap, the ability to cook a meal, the fact that they can sleep at night feeling secure behind a closed door.

I have a suggestion for anyone who thinks it can't get any worse, around Christmas time this year go and spend 2-3 weeks homeless without money, i dare you to just walk out of your house in the cloths on your back with nothing in your pockets, that's when you'll realise how conceited and arrogant you sound when you say "it can't get any worse"

/Rant

Breath, Breath, count to ten,

 

I expect most of you have seen these already.

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2...dev-and-fox-break-bread-as-told-by-lily-allen

http://news.sky.com/video/1721760/waltz-on-brexit-and-head-rat-farage

 

Indeed, if we can't get our kids into a school it is the foreigners fault, yet the bitter reality is that the number of state funded primary schools has been decreasing since the late 70s (source on page 4 of linked pdf)

 

apparently Theresa May is leading the race - brinksmanship likely to go up to the top....

although 1 comment , ive seen today - there is already precedent for renegotiation based on previous referendum `losses` ; different circumstances , but the option is there. But Junckers wants the UK gone anyway

 

A pictures worth a thousand words.



Source.

If you need more up to date figures the Department for Education published their figures in this PDF.

Have to say I'm surprised at the amount of closures of fee-paying private schools.

 

Indeed. As someone who has been homeless once (long story), I could cry with frustration. Things can get a lot worse. And now, they will.

Conclusion from today's BoE conference: banks' capital reserves to be spent, deficit to go back up, AAA credit rating lost. Six years of economics reversed in 12 days. Well done, Brexiteers!

 

Junckers wouldn't get a choice; most EU member states want the UK back. Just not at any price.

 

I can see the EU accepting the UK back into the fold, they just won't laugh it off and treat it like jolly good fun. What the UK has done was wrong, irresponsible and downright immature. They should be held responsible for their actions.

It's a shame that the UK populace (those who voted Remain at least) are likely to feel the pain of this as well, but ultimately it was the general failure of UK politics over the past decades which enabled this. Maybe the next General Election will see a wipe-out of existing parties and the formation of a new, saner political system. Maybe.

 

wrong? a democratic mandate by the majority of voters chose to LEAVE

how is that WRONG? other than in your own OPINION.

or do you thionk democracy should only work when the `right` choice is made?

 

The thing is, if we just look at immigration for a moment, why do they think everyone is coming here if it's already 'so bad'? Why do they think people want to leave their perfectly fine location, travel to a foreign location which is worse? Maybe they should start covering Greece a bit more and maybe then people will realise things can get worse.

Edit:

Most would probably attribute the words Free and Fair under democracy. With campaigns based on lies the fair part comes under question. That is of course if you ascribe those merits to democracy.

 

What is wrong is:

• To reduce a complex question about Britain's relationship with the EU to a simple binary "stay" or "leave" choice (especially when "leave" can mean so many different things).
• To run a campaign on purely emotive argument, based on gross distortion of facts, outright lies and total absence of information, without any sense of propriety and decency, while making xenophobic and aggressive remarks and irresponsible and unaccountable promises.
• To have no brexit plan whatsoever; especially Vote Leave which has had up to 20 years to think about it. I mean, the Leave Alliance managed to have a plan.

So: if the democratic process is debased, the decision making is debased and the vote is garbage.

Unless you can convince me that what is happening now in Britain is the normal democratic political state of affairs.