1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

E.U: Leave or Stay? Your thoughts.

Discussion in 'Serious' started by TheBlackSwordsMan, 22 Feb 2016.

  1. Archtronics

    Archtronics Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    27 Jun 2006
    Posts:
    2,559
    Likes Received:
    64
    Oil.

    Uk produce will go up at the same rate as imports I'd say.
     
  2. DragunovHUN

    DragunovHUN I want to change my name but I also don't

    Joined:
    30 Oct 2008
    Posts:
    5,144
    Likes Received:
    181
    Leaving the EU is a means to an end, by itself it doesn't mean anything to anyone. People's opinions are based on what they know to be the consequences of being in the EU and the consequences of leaving it. Were the voters properly informed about what that end would realistically be, or were they just fed neat sounding ideas designed to fuel their emotions?

    Ideally it would be the voter's responsibility to know what it is they're voting for, but I think we all know that isn't realistic with a large part of the population. At the same time though, that doesn't give the campaign messages a free pass to manipulate people and just say whatever benefits their agenda.
     
  3. nimbu

    nimbu Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    28 Nov 2002
    Posts:
    2,111
    Likes Received:
    76
    1) I want to point out that the media's portrayal of the word migrant is twisted and really there needs to be a better clarification, should be 3 types of folks coming from outside of the EU to the UK (Possibly more).

    Political Asylum / Refugees:
    People who are genuinely fearing for their lives.

    Economical Migrants:
    Folks that see that they can come to the UK and make a better standard of life for themselves or their families. Either with the intention of living in the UK of the radar or sending cash back home.

    Enemy combatants:
    Those wanting to use subterfuge to get into the UK and cause trouble.

    I list them in the order I think is most likely to least likely.

    Coming back to your point for the first group (who in my opinion make up the majority of the "migrants" we hear about:

    Do you honestly believe that someone who has managed to escape from a war torn country, trekked from one continent to another by foot or via people traffickers, survived by eating what they could find in bins etc is going to be discouraged by the chance they will get shot when they turn up on a UK beach? I say chance because unless you are proposing a solid wall around the GB that's manned 24/7 people will slip through.

    As I describe above for some it already is a deadly effort

    Your tarring a group of people with a brush based upon a minority. Leave voters (rightly in my opinion) are unhappy with the statement "Leave voters are all racist". Because the minority of them that are racist are vocal about it the whole group is tarnished. Same goes for this minority of enemy combatants that are slipping through.
     
    Last edited: 6 Jul 2016
  4. nimbu

    nimbu Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    28 Nov 2002
    Posts:
    2,111
    Likes Received:
    76
    We have more to do with it than you think and it goes a lot further back than recent wars in the regions.

    Have a read up on our (the west's) involvement in the breaking up of the Ottoman empire post WW1 and our helping to install the Shia governments.

    As for your argument on no space, certainly I understand that things arnt open fields ready to be filled, but we could and should be doing a lot more to help.

    Same principles behind giving a pregnant lady your seat on a packed train or helping that old person that fell over in the high st. Do you help or do you just ignore them?
     
  5. Anfield

    Anfield Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    15 Jan 2010
    Posts:
    5,539
    Likes Received:
    497
    As it turns out not only did the government lack a plan, they don't even know who among them needs to say yes to what in order to trigger the process, so yes, voters where definitely just fed a bunch of neat sounding ideas.


    Voters are now waking up to realize Westminster is no closer to them or any more competent than Brussels.
     
  6. Nexxo

    Nexxo Stopped treating this country as if it was his own

    Joined:
    23 Oct 2001
    Posts:
    33,878
    Likes Received:
    1,420
    OK, six property funds are frozen now, the Pound has dropped further and:

    As for where the Pound may be heading:

     
    Last edited: 6 Jul 2016
  7. Elledan

    Elledan New Member

    Joined:
    4 Feb 2009
    Posts:
    948
    Likes Received:
    34
  8. Nexxo

    Nexxo Stopped treating this country as if it was his own

    Joined:
    23 Oct 2001
    Posts:
    33,878
    Likes Received:
    1,420
    After all, those countries are the source of cheap labour in the EU, no?

    Every candidate to replace Cameron absolutely intends to trigger Article 50. But they are huffing and puffing about “we’ll do it when we’re good and ready” because they are hoping the answers they’re getting from the rest of Europe, the answers they’re getting from the universe, will change. When those answers don’t change, what will make a PM decide Wednesday was a bad day to start the clock ticking, but Thursday is a fine day?

    A government that refuses to implement the will of the people would be wrecked in public opinion. A government that implements that will, but completely ruins the economy in the process, would not face a better end. Ironically, their best strategy is hoping for the EU to bail them out.
     
  9. theshadow2001

    theshadow2001 [DELETE] means [DELETE]

    Joined:
    3 May 2012
    Posts:
    5,176
    Likes Received:
    149
    As expected, a hard push in Ireland to try and intercept / relocate investments ear marked for Britain.

    http://www.breakingnews.ie/business...we-can-for-post-brexit-investment-743470.html

    I imagine every other EU country is doing the same.
     
    Last edited: 6 Jul 2016
  10. faugusztin

    faugusztin I *am* the guy with two left hands

    Joined:
    11 Aug 2008
    Posts:
    6,901
    Likes Received:
    254
    Certainly not as cheap as Romania, Croatia or hell, even Hungary. And if you asking for a skilled labor (i don't mean people with university education, but jobs like car painter, mechanic etc), then it starts to become expensive. Not western Europe expensive, but still, we talk about 800-1000 euros for jobs in car industry for example. While it is cheap compared to UK, it is expensive compared to Romania.

    Just 3 months ago there was an article on a Hungarian new site ( sorry, in hungarian : http://index.hu/gazdasag/2016/03/23/audi_sztrajk_autoipar_munkaerohiany/ ) that Hungarian car industry is being hit by shortage of people who could work in car industry, because it is better for the people who were employed there to start working in Slovakia (because of course, Slovakia is short of people good for the industry, but companies here willing to pay them more).

    But other side is that these Chinese companies you mentioned are probably subcontractors for the car industry, and then the minor increase in salaries are offset by location. Because which car industry supplier doesn't want to have factory in a country where VW, Kia, PSA and possibly Jaguar Land Rover has/will have factories. Although Jaguar investment could go poof, because of the Brexit :).
     
  11. VipersGratitude

    VipersGratitude Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    4 Mar 2008
    Posts:
    3,096
    Likes Received:
    489
  12. forum_user

    forum_user forum_title

    Joined:
    4 Jan 2012
    Posts:
    511
    Likes Received:
    3
    Thank you for sharing this.

    I do not resent or hold a grudge to anyone who voted brexit because I understand why the majority of them did it. This guy added so much more to what I thought, and a well deserved standing ovation.
     
  13. rainbowbridge

    rainbowbridge Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    26 Apr 2009
    Posts:
    3,171
    Likes Received:
    69
    ill watch this later tonight, great if we can as small thread keep adding helpful resources about this topic.

    thanks VipersGratitude
     
  14. Nexxo

    Nexxo Stopped treating this country as if it was his own

    Joined:
    23 Oct 2001
    Posts:
    33,878
    Likes Received:
    1,420
    Nothing is stopping you kiddo, but so far you've just ranted that illegals are all criminals and terrorists who should be shot on sight at the British borders.
     
  15. Grimloon

    Grimloon New Member

    Joined:
    4 Sep 2008
    Posts:
    885
    Likes Received:
    30
    I'm kinda mixed on this one, he puts his point across well until about 13 minutes in as he's then talking about my part of the world and he's simply wrong. Least affected by immigration? In the numbers of immigrants, possibly. However, there has been little or no change in NHS funding to reflect that, nor on infrastructure costs as a whole. 100,000 new people in an area where minimum wage is the norm makes a difference.
     
  16. Corky42

    Corky42 Where's walle?

    Joined:
    30 Oct 2012
    Posts:
    9,625
    Likes Received:
    383
    TBH i see all the talk of triggering Article 50 as rhetoric, they'll be lots of talk about it and they'll take a seemingly hardline to keep leave voters constantly thinking it's just around the corner.

    Like you point out saying your not going to trigger it is as bad as triggering it, so maybe it's best if you (the politicians) do neither.

    IDK Where you live but based on this map he was right when he said in the majority of areas.
     
  17. VipersGratitude

    VipersGratitude Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    4 Mar 2008
    Posts:
    3,096
    Likes Received:
    489
    That was exactly his point. The problem isn't immigrants. The problem is the uneven distribution of wealth. An elevated regional birth rate would bring the same problems, but there would be no external scapegoat.

    "The future is already here - it's just not very evenly distributed" ~William Gibson
     
  18. Nexxo

    Nexxo Stopped treating this country as if it was his own

    Joined:
    23 Oct 2001
    Posts:
    33,878
    Likes Received:
    1,420
    EU immigration makes no impact whatsoever on the NHS; they are 50% less likely to use it than the average population. However there has been change in NHS funding --downwards. The NHS has had its budget cut by about 20% over the last 5 years since last years cuts, for the first time in history all Trusts are in the red, including ones that hitherto had run at a modest surplus.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Trust me, that's not immigration doing that. That's a government hell-bent on Austerity politics and phasing the NHS out of existence. And now we see the economic consequences of Leaving the EU, the NHS will cease to exist by 2025.
     
  19. Corky42

    Corky42 Where's walle?

    Joined:
    30 Oct 2012
    Posts:
    9,625
    Likes Received:
    383
    I'm not doubting those pictures or your claims but what i don't understand is how come the figures i looked at show increases in NHS spending, in real terms, in other words if the investments increasing why are we still seeing NHS trusts in deficit?
     
  20. VipersGratitude

    VipersGratitude Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    4 Mar 2008
    Posts:
    3,096
    Likes Received:
    489
    Because your graph is too small

    [​IMG]
     

Share This Page