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E.U: Leave or Stay? Your thoughts.

Discussion in 'Serious' started by TheBlackSwordsMan, 22 Feb 2016.

  1. Corky42

    Corky42 Where's walle?

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    To be fair he's talking about the single currency, something that we never joined and something that if it goes boom is going to effect us regardless of our membership of the EU, you only have to look at how the financial collapse of 08 in America effected most of the world to see that.

    No, they're all working for the government now, unless it's one of those Johnny foreigners, I've heard they can't be trusted though so best not listen to them. ;)

    EDIT: Besides isn't it a bit daft if you suspect the single currency is heading for failure to withdraw from the organisation that allows you to fix things?
     
    Last edited: 18 Oct 2016
  2. Nexxo

    Nexxo * Prefab Sprout – The King of Rock 'n' Roll

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    [​IMG]
     
  3. Valo

    Valo Minimodder

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    That's my main problem with Brexit. The whole 'taking back control' narrative is just a proxy for what in fact is "give up responsibility because we don't want solidarity in facing the consequences".


    This is how the EU sees it and, rightly so, I expect them to reply with a big fat FU to the Britain. I for one have started coming up with a plan for removing my assets out of here and moving elsewhere
     
  4. Archtronics

    Archtronics Minimodder

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    Might be a tad extreme, but certainly if you have multiple assets it would be prudent to explore foreign markets irregardless of Brexit.
     
  5. Corky42

    Corky42 Where's walle?

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    With information coming out of the court hearing going on ATM is anyone else getting the feeling our government is not only displaying a lack of direction externally but also internally?

    What I've gathered so far is they agree the referendum was only advisory and it would need a vote in parliament but they're still saying their going to use royal prerogative to trigger article 50, and then they've also said parliament will get a vote on the final deal but if parliament voted it down they'd still leave the EU but without any agreement in place, it all seems very confused to me. :confused:
     
  6. Archtronics

    Archtronics Minimodder

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    From what I understand, leaving the Eu will happen but they will get to vote on the deal put forward by the govt.

    In essence that means they don't have a lot of choice, if they reject it then we are even further up **** creek.
     
  7. Nexxo

    Nexxo * Prefab Sprout – The King of Rock 'n' Roll

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    Like I said: displacement behaviour. The Brexiteers promised many sweet unicorns, but when the disenfranchised poor who voted Leave starts to feel Breality hitting their costs of living, the crowd will get ugly...

    In any case leaving the EU without a deal is just an attempt to scare the MPs into ratifying. The MPs could simply vote to revoke Article 50 before the deadline --the EU would accept that.
     
  8. Archtronics

    Archtronics Minimodder

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    Surly revoking it would be political suicide for most Con/Lab mps in wards that voted leave?

    It would also make the anti Eu/ anti settlement even worse.
     
  9. Corky42

    Corky42 Where's walle?

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    Yea that bit i understand, the bit i don't is the government saying 6 years ago that referendums are only advisory but then putting parliament in a situation where that advise has already been acted upon and they only get to debate and vote on the outcome.
     
  10. Nexxo

    Nexxo * Prefab Sprout – The King of Rock 'n' Roll

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    Going through with something that destroys the UK economy will be even worse. Especially if sentiments have changed by then. Rock, meet hard place.
     
    Last edited: 18 Oct 2016
  11. Archtronics

    Archtronics Minimodder

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    I don't think your average leave voter is going to see it that way tho, blame will be placed on those same MPs for not sorting it out.

    They will never see "brexit" as the cause it will always be the establishment to blame.
     
  12. Nexxo

    Nexxo * Prefab Sprout – The King of Rock 'n' Roll

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    Quite likely. Hence the dilemma: risking ire for going against the people's vote, or risking ire for colluding with making Brexit a disaster? If they vote against, they can always blame the government for negotiating such a lucky deal. If they vote in favour, they are held partly responsible for the sucky deal they approved. Politicians are nothing if not skilled in passing the buck up the chain.
     
  13. Corky42

    Corky42 Where's walle?

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    Don't forget the remoners, they'll be just as equally to blame for not wishing hard enough. ;)
     
  14. Archtronics

    Archtronics Minimodder

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    Ah yes, very undemocratic of them ::thumb: whatever happened to the two thirds majority eh :duh:
     
  15. Nexxo

    Nexxo * Prefab Sprout – The King of Rock 'n' Roll

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    Theresa May has confirmed that MPs will get the final vote on ratifying the deal. Someone is trying to spread the blame. :p

    Meanwhile the Pound has started to climb again. But, you know, we shouldn't read anything in that.

    (Just wait until the EU says that Article 50 can be revoked. The gloves are going to be off in parliament...)
     
  16. Anfield

    Anfield Multimodder

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    Vote how we tell you to or else...

    In a rational world that would be called extortion.
     
  17. Nexxo

    Nexxo * Prefab Sprout – The King of Rock 'n' Roll

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    In the UK it is called the party whip system.

    Of course pro-EU MPs may just decide to vote against and watch the world burn. Like the Brexiteers have been doing when they voted to leave without a plan. Especially the N. Irish and Scottish ones, whose constituents will experience a lot of the economic pain while having majority voted to stay in the EU. And in England and Wales, 48% of very pissed-off Remain voters should not be ignored. There's enough of them to vote out the whole government in 2020.

    Remember: People expect their promised unicorns. They'll want their cake. If Brexit goes sour, they won't blame themselves for being gullible idiots; they'll do what they always do: blame the politicians because regardless how much they in turn will blame the EU and the immigrants, the politicians were the ones who promised, who brokered the deal, who let the immigrants in. The Tories will have very few friends left.

    Anyway: People keep forgetting that the referendum was advisory, as was clearly stated in its bill:

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: 18 Oct 2016
  18. Corky42

    Corky42 Where's walle?

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    I'm not sure that was what Anfield was getting at, the way the government seems to be going about it is to give MPs the vote on whatever deal the government cooks up, that way no matter what deal the government comes up with they can forever deflect any blame of a bad deal by saying 'MPs were given a vote on it'

    It's a bit like asking your doctor for some advise about organ donation and then turning up at A&E after selling your kidneys and telling them it's their fault if you don't live a full and health life.
     
  19. Nexxo

    Nexxo * Prefab Sprout – The King of Rock 'n' Roll

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    It is indeed an attempt at spreading the blame for if when it all goes south.

    However EU officials have already suggested that Article 50 can be cancelled before its two-year deadline runs out. If MPs vote against the deal, the PM will be faced with the choice of crashing into the WTO or revoking Article 50 (for which she can blame parliament). Basically both sides can play it up to the wire (although I expect MPs won't have the balls, crazy things appear possible in politics these days).
     
    Last edited: 19 Oct 2016
  20. Corky42

    Corky42 Where's walle?

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    I hadn't thought of that. So in other words we're going to have 2 and a bit years spending vast amounts of our taxes, businesses in turmoil, and the economy heading south that will eventual lead to 3 choices, Brexit on the governments terms whatever they maybe, Brexit without any agreement in place, or no Brexit.

    I think it's safe to say they won't vote for Brexit without an agreement so that just leave no Brexit with the risk of sticking two fingers up at the advise from the electorate, or agreeing with whatever deal the government cobbles together.

    EDIT: Having said that it does seem most people (politicians and the media) are saying it's a vote of accepting whatever deal the government comes up with or leaving the EU without a deal, it seems cancelling article 50 after it's invoked isn't entering into it.
     
    Last edited: 19 Oct 2016

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