1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

E.U: Leave or Stay? Your thoughts.

Discussion in 'Serious' started by TheBlackSwordsMan, 22 Feb 2016.

  1. RedFlames

    RedFlames ...is not a Belgian football team

    Joined:
    23 Apr 2009
    Posts:
    9,164
    Likes Received:
    645
    The Torygraph does appear to have gone off the deep end of late... at times they've made the Mail and Express look downright rational.
     
  2. Corky42

    Corky42 What did walle eat for breakfast?

    Joined:
    30 Oct 2012
    Posts:
    8,295
    Likes Received:
    174
    I still think the express has them beat what with nearly every Brexit article leading with words like "destroys" "blasts" "ripped into" betrayal" "savages"

    The Telegraph has always been more classy, they even have an article by JRM in which he says people are nitpicking when they point out that Mrs May's speech leaves us beholden to EU justice in some sectors, doesn't address the NI border, and turns the UK into a vassal state as the great man himself would say.
     
    Last edited: 4 Mar 2018
  3. Nexxo

    Nexxo Bargaining chip

    Joined:
    23 Oct 2001
    Posts:
    32,787
    Likes Received:
    1,087
    The Express uses more caps. Apart from that, they are slowly converging in hysterical delusion.
     
  4. Archtronics

    Archtronics Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    27 Jun 2006
    Posts:
    2,446
    Likes Received:
    50
    This.
    Reasoned debate seems to have completely disappeared in the last 5-10 years.
    Instead we have this ridiculous hyperbole of fear politics and the “I’m offended” culture.

    JRM and co are probably just keeping quiet until we leave, then they can get rid of May and start pulling out of the bits they don’t like.
     
  5. Nexxo

    Nexxo Bargaining chip

    Joined:
    23 Oct 2001
    Posts:
    32,787
    Likes Received:
    1,087
    JRM et al are part of the upper class Tories who believe that they should rule by birth right. They are against the EU on principle, not because they have a rational argument (so they make one up on the spot when required). Theresa May is just a useful idiot to them.

    People get what they vote for. No compassion.
     
  6. Corky42

    Corky42 What did walle eat for breakfast?

    Joined:
    30 Oct 2012
    Posts:
    8,295
    Likes Received:
    174
    It's not really a new thing, the ridiculous hyperbole of fear politics tends rear its head every few generations, last time it was Thatcher with statements like British people were afraid they "might be rather swamped by people with a different culture" and before that was Enoch Powell with his rivers of blood speech.

    All of this has happened before and all of this will happen again, it seems not everyone learns from histories mistakes.
     
  7. RedFlames

    RedFlames ...is not a Belgian football team

    Joined:
    23 Apr 2009
    Posts:
    9,164
    Likes Received:
    645
  8. Nexxo

    Nexxo Bargaining chip

    Joined:
    23 Oct 2001
    Posts:
    32,787
    Likes Received:
    1,087
    Last edited: 5 Mar 2018
  9. adidan

    adidan Avatar is back out of season.

    Joined:
    25 Mar 2009
    Posts:
    11,775
    Likes Received:
    641
    Looks like Italy is adding to the EUs woes. Can't see that helping negotiations.
     
  10. RedFlames

    RedFlames ...is not a Belgian football team

    Joined:
    23 Apr 2009
    Posts:
    9,164
    Likes Received:
    645
    'Even by Italy's standards... it's a ****ing mess'
     
  11. Nexxo

    Nexxo Bargaining chip

    Joined:
    23 Oct 2001
    Posts:
    32,787
    Likes Received:
    1,087
    None of its populist right-wing parties want to leave the EU however. Whatever happens, there won't be an Itexit.
     
  12. RedFlames

    RedFlames ...is not a Belgian football team

    Joined:
    23 Apr 2009
    Posts:
    9,164
    Likes Received:
    645
    Also probably too late in the game for any Italian mentalism to have much of an effect on the brexit 'negotiations'.
     
  13. Corky42

    Corky42 What did walle eat for breakfast?

    Joined:
    30 Oct 2012
    Posts:
    8,295
    Likes Received:
    174
    I wonder if leave voters are feeling a little betrayed now Mrs May has changed her tune, before the referendum we were told the idea that trade will suffer was silly, that we'd get a deal that would offer the exact same benefits, etc, etc.

    Now though it seems Mrs May is saying quiet the opposite, that we won't enjoy all the benefits and access to each others markets will be less than it is now.

    Is this more project fear or just a hint of project reality.
     
  14. Nexxo

    Nexxo Bargaining chip

    Joined:
    23 Oct 2001
    Posts:
    32,787
    Likes Received:
    1,087
    The only Brexit negotiations that have been taking place are happening in the Tory party. The EU's offer has been on the table since October 2016. It is just waiting for the UK to catch up reality.
     
  15. Nexxo

    Nexxo Bargaining chip

    Joined:
    23 Oct 2001
    Posts:
    32,787
    Likes Received:
    1,087
    Most Leave voters rationalise their decision after the fact (which is easy, because it had no rational basis in the first place). They are already saying that it was not about the money, that it was about 'sovereignty' (without knowing what that really means, otherwise they'd be feeling pretty betrayed on that point as well) and 'control over the borders'. The narrative of even pro-Leave economists has already changed from 'sunny uplands' to 'very limited impact' on the economy.

    There will be more of this in months to come as more unicorns get slaughtered. Eventually people will say it was all about blue passports.
     
  16. Corky42

    Corky42 What did walle eat for breakfast?

    Joined:
    30 Oct 2012
    Posts:
    8,295
    Likes Received:
    174
    True but i was expecting leave voters to be a little more vociferous as everything they were promised slowly turns to dust, instead it seems they're happy to remain silent and let the politicians break yet more promises.
     
  17. Nexxo

    Nexxo Bargaining chip

    Joined:
    23 Oct 2001
    Posts:
    32,787
    Likes Received:
    1,087
    As I said before, most Leave voters didn't really think about it before, so they're not really thinking about it now. They voted to Leave, the UK is Leaving, so they think that they are getting what they want and anything else is just toooo complicated so they switch off from it.

    By the time that they realise, some years from now, that they are not better off but worse, that there are still plenty of brown people around, and that they now have to join the queue with the rest of the world when landing in Lanzarote airport, then perhaps the realisation may dawn on them that this is not the Brexit that they voted for. But they will blame the government for doing it wrong, and blame the EU for being difficult, not themselves for making a stupid choice.

    What we've got here, fundamentally, is a Leave voter base which, if we set aside the 41% who are pensioners, is mostly people who missed the economic bus the first time around because they are too unskilled or too feckless to get a job in a country that had one of the fastest growing economies and the lowest unemployment rate in history, and in which three million EU immigrants managed to find gainful employment. These people do not exactly have, shall we say, an internal locus of control. They will always blame someone else for their own misfortune. Junkie logic. The pensioners meanwhile don't care; they just want to roll back the UK to the 60's, which was the time that they last understood the world. For them Brexit was a nostalgia vote.
     
    Last edited: 6 Mar 2018
    MLyons likes this.
  18. Broadwater06

    Broadwater06 Member

    Joined:
    10 Apr 2016
    Posts:
    199
    Likes Received:
    3
    Agreed. I think brexiters are making a big mistake with lumping other countries political situations with brexit. Italian politics and history of it is very different to ours. Wasn't long ago when far-right terrorist group bombed Bologna train station. And don't forget Farage poked his face in Austrian elections, exclaiming "Brexit was first brick out of the wall" - how wrong he was. There will be no similar brexit Europe mainland despite the rise of far-right populist parties.
     
  19. loftie

    loftie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    14 Feb 2009
    Posts:
    2,682
    Likes Received:
    78
    Just read the BBC article about the UK needing to go on a diet. First comment I read made me laugh

     
    Anfield and RedFlames like this.
  20. RedFlames

    RedFlames ...is not a Belgian football team

    Joined:
    23 Apr 2009
    Posts:
    9,164
    Likes Received:
    645
    Development anyone with eyes and a functional brain cell could see coming #89653:

    [​IMG]
     

Share This Page