E.U: Leave or Stay? Your thoughts.

£20bn for the NHS... £2bn for Scotland... YouGov asking me every few days who i'd vote for if there was an election tomorrow [something they typically only do when an election is coming up]...

...I smell an election coming.

Well a decent chunk of people believed the lie the last time tey told it, but it was on the side of a bus then...

 

Sure they may hate the liberal mainstream but surely that's a better alternative from their position than the authoritative right, I'm not really buying that the UK is a moderately socialist country as we've elected authoritarian right wing government for the majority of the last 40 years. (It goes without saying that I'm placing UK parties on the political spectrum in the context of the UK, obviously the conservatives are not as authoritarian right wing as the Nazis or BNP.)

They may hate the current liberal mainstream that makes up a majority of the EU but don't they hate the conservatives more, i just don't get why they believe coming out of the EU isn't going to result in more of what they hate rather than less, it's obvious we'll lower worker and citizens rights, we'll deregulate the financial and other markets, lower environmental standards, sell of the remaining publicly owned services, and in general get more of what they hate.

 

Funded by Brexit Bonds they'll try to guilt trip everyone into buying

 

In the context of just the UKs history maybe center right but in comparison to other countries such as the US etc we still lean slightly left. We are authoritarian but thats more symptomatic of our political system than party politics.

I wouldn't say they hate the conservatives more since traditional conservatives (Mogg and ilk) don't pose much of a threat anymore.
Well its simple those outcomes are based on the continuation of the Conservatives, Labour's aim/belief is to be in government and for the state to be all powerful they can't have the EU overruling such thing

 

That's sort of why i think Corbyn and McDonald's position is so unattainable, by not coming out for remain their putting of remain voters and upon further scrutiny giving away their harder left ideological so also putting of moderate leave voters.

I also wouldn't say traditional conservatives (Mogg and ilk) don't pose much of a threat anymore as currently they seem to be a rather major driving force in how Brexit is served up to us.

 

How much of that is actually down to them being a driving force rather than May being a pushover?

 

Perhaps but I don't think its that simple, wealthy middle class remain voter for example aren't going to back Corbyn even if he did strongly support remain.

They don't pose much of a threat to the left.
Sure they threaten the moderate conservatives which has lead to brexit but its been like that for decades. (arguably you could say thats Blairs fault tho)

 

It's complicated, i think May is a prisoner of her circumstances, it's why she called an election as she wanted a bigger majority so she could ignore the hardliners without risk of being defeated and potentially a no confidence vote.

True but they'd be more likely to vote for him (imo) if he supported remaining and showed that he'd moderated his far left tendency, as time goes by it seems he's appealing to a very small subset of voters, those on the far left and who want to leave the EU, I'd guess that's probably the smallest group within the whole Brexit thing.

 

While I believe this to be true, she'd be a damp rag even if she had a 100 seat majority.

 

Well, you can't polish a turd with a firm hand. You just end up smearing the mess all over the place.

Meanwhile more Project Fear --> Project Reality.

 

Oh, and with the entire aviation threatened to be grounded by March, the government are (only now) recruiting a:

Head of Aviation EU Exit Negotiations
Leading on the overall negotiating position on aviation for the Government, your duties will include:
• establishing, leading and managing the core aviation negotiating team, and ensuring its close coordination with existing policy and legislation teams
• overseeing negotiations with the EU on the future of our aviation safety and airspace relationships
• contributing to the formulation and implementation of the UK’s future aviation strategy and development of related legislation and policies
Prior knowledge of airspace and the aviation sector is an advantage but not necessary.

Salary: £62,519 - £70,859. Jesus H. Christ. Less than I earn.

 

So the Government win the vote as even the MP who the amendment is named after voted with them. Oh and the usual allowance for MPs in hospital was ignored.

In other news the EU bring in a draconian copyright law and the Hungarian Government make it illegal to help asylum seekers even if you are a lawyer or a charity.

Oh and the Italians are looking to kick the Roma population out.

I tire of it all.

 

I'm just waiting for all the recriminations to start when people see project fear turning into project reality, everyone will obviously blame the government and the EU as if the actual decision to leave had no part to play in any of it, if only they did this or that, it's the EU that's to blame, it's the psychic emanations coming from remoaners.

Obviously no ones going to say what really caused all the problems because as stuartpb once said (iirc) if we don't leave now then we'll never get another chance, it won't matter that no one had a clue what they were voting for, that there was no whitepaper, no concise idea of how to leave, that concerns over the inability of our politicians to organise a P up in a brewery were dismissed as fear mongering.

I'm guessing a simply told you so will be dismissed as remoaner whinging.

 

"I told you so" is not constructive, apparently. Whereas taking a sledgehammer to 40+ years of political, legal and economical cooperation and smashing it to bits in a fit of unthinking pique apparently was.

 

Sounds a lot more fun tho... Wanton destruction is underrated.

 

I kind of have to agree with that sentiment.
The expected impact of a response has to have some sort of relation to the situation at hand in order for it to be considered serious (or constructive).
So where "I told you so" might be fitting when someone finds out the hard way that eating a whole jar of mayonnaise is a bad idea it doesn't really fit a **** up as big as this.

 

It is only fun when you can afford to watch from a safe distance while sipping a drink. Not so much when you are close enough to get hit by the shrapnel.

Not my problem, I suppose. As a 9th decile income professional in the NHS, I'm well clear of the blast zone. Chin-chin.

 

Non-alcoholic for me please.

 

True but what else is left to say, despite untold warnings that it would all go pete tong both before and since the referendum, that it was wrong to trigger A50 so soon, that our politicians have no idea what they doing and are incompetent, that the most vulnerable in society would be hit the worst, despite everything, we still seem perfectly happy sitting in a bus where the zealots have nobbled the brakes, locked the doors and windows, and castigates anyone who dares to suggest that the road we're on leads to a great big cliff.