E.U: Leave or Stay? Your thoughts.

How Miltonesque:

"Better to reign in Hell than serve in Heaven" --Paradise Lost

 

If I could scrape the money together - and had guaranteed work - I would not hesitate to emigrate right now. I would happily learn the language, move to another country, and even give up my British citizenship.

I can't even afford a deposit to buy a house because our economy is already so f---ed: house prices have increased 129% since I left college 18 years ago, and because banks couldn't collectively figure out responsible lending it means that I now have to save anywhere between £15,000 and £30,000 to buy a house. As well as paying all my other bills/debts and trying to put money away in savings, of course. The chances of me being able to afford to emigrate, even somewhere relatively close like The Netherlands or Germany, are so small that I'm more likely to win the lottery. While we're on the subject of saving money, could someone please remind me what a holiday is? The last time I spent more than 2-3 nights away was back in 1993.

This country is, economically and politically, f---ed. We are tearing public services to pieces and failing to give fair pay to our doctors, nurses, teachers and emergency services. We are systematically and almost gleefully dismantling any kind of help or support for those who need it: the elderly, the disabled, those willing yet medically unable to work, those with substance misuse problems, those leaving prison, those needing mental health care. We continue to vote in lying shysters who demonstrably do not have our best interests at heart. We continue to accept an unfair and anachronistic voting system which does not represent the views of all voters. We happily lap it up and accept all of it as long as we can get cheap food at the supermarket (which isn't even that cheap any more) and as long as we can watch Strictly Come Dancing or Love Island every week. Our idea of "manufacturing" and "exporting" is, largely, to import all the individual bits and pieces, put the bolts in, and sell on the assembled bits; even home-grown success stories like the Raspberry Pi foundation are dependant on importing all the constituent parts from China and only doing the final assembly here *. As if all that on its own wasn't bad enough, we are now embarking on the single most disruptive political event that many of us will see within our lifetime. To whom do we choose to hand control of this potentially devastating process? To people whose idea of negotiation and debate is literally a Monty Python sketch:



Every now and then I skim over this thread to catch up but I rarely post or get involved in discussions; it's just too depressing. We have long passed the point of rational debate, every sincere and reasoned argument has been done. We were already in the land of rhetoric and false promises, on both sides, right back when the referendum campaign started and it's only got worse since then. Whether you like it or not, whether you voted for it or not, Brexit is almost a guaranteed certainty. As fun as it might be to watch the world burn we still have to live through it, and right now that's an incredibly depressing prospect. (To be clear: none of this a criticism of anyone in this thread).

Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go continue sh-tposting on Facebook and watch Metalocalypse.

*As a slight aside: I respect the position that Raspberry Pi Trading has taken with regards to manufacturing. It would be far cheaper to assemble everything in China as well as sourcing the parts there, but they have deliberately chosen to continue assembly in a UK facility - just up the road from me, no less.

 

Without knowing exactly what you do for a living, I can't comment on your chances in the Netherlands (although language is not an issue --everybody speaks fluent English there), but have you considered New Zealand? They're desperate for young, skilled people.

 

If you go down that route go to Australia. Seriously.

NZ is not the utopia people imagine it to be.

Everyone should have a long holiday there though if they can.

 

Comes back to the same thing: cost. Unless an employer is willing to pay a relocation package, which I think would be unlikely, there's no way I could afford it. And sadly I'm not sure that "late thirties" qualifies me as being "young" any more .

I'm a database developer, btw...

 

Looks like the EU has poured cold water on that idea, if this was a game of poker we'd be excitedly telling the other players how great our hand is and holding it up in front of their faces so we could gloat.

 

Bit easier to get to but houses are still relativly affordable up here in the north, (eg.my mortgage is 400ish a month for a 2 bed semi) loads of jobs around Manchester area too etc.

 

HMG Holds up a winning hand of - Mr Bun The Baker, A Pikachu, A monopoly 'Get out of Jail Free' card, The Fool and Boris' Osyter Card.

 

i wouldn't be that surprised if it doesn't re-open again...

BMW to shut factory for a month after Brexit day

 

Naah, it's project fear, innit?

Oh, BTW start kissing your NHS goodbye.

 

Start? I think we're past kissing it goodbye, and on to waiting for the cab to arrive.

 

Make it a hearse.

 

Yeah, been waiting for this to pop up.

Since the dawn of Brexit talk you could see this would be one of the obvious lines.

In any new US trade deal they would demand private healthcare companies access. Looking forward to a worse and more costly service.

This insanity has to stop.

 

Not going to. The first time people will realise that they've been had is when some medical mistake is made, they try to complain and they suddenly find themselves up against the lawyers of some faceless American private health care organisation. And that will take a few years to come to pass.

With a little luck I can retire in five years, quietly close the door on my NHS career and bugger off to mainland Europe before British healthcare comes crashing down like a house of cards.

 

Takes me back to NZ. Slightly different but it seemed whenever a medical mistake happened family members were lucky if they got a letter of apology. That was about it.

Right. Best get deciding on where to go.

 

Something tells me the UK stands more chance of going Mad Max than the NHS surviving for five years post-brexit.

You might be more "The Organic Mechanic" than anyone ever should be.

 

There's a reason why our very elderly patients are almost painfully grateful --they still remember a time before the NHS. Most other people take it for granted. They have no idea how much it actually costs, how loyal and dedicated the staff often are; how much unpaid overtime this highly trained and qualified staff pours into this service for free to compensate for understaffing and under-resourcing, for no other reason than their belief in its principles (it's 20%, by the way).

That ain't going to happen when we work for a private employer, I can tell you now. It will be strictly business. Expect health care to get a lot more expensive and services to be a lot more limited.

 

But don't worry, they have a plan to make sure people will be too stupid as well as unable to take legal action:

 

I can never remember is that more or less than people believe in God.

Wow that was badly spelt.

 

The 2016 BSA survey reported that 41% of Britons considered themselves Christian, and 6% of other assorted faiths.

When it comes to essentially giving up 8+ hours a week to charity work, I suspect the percentage is a lot lower.