E.U: Leave or Stay? Your thoughts.

Being against a single political party is, i would say, not against the national interest, the national interest would be the whole nation irregardless of political leanings.

I guess it could be argued that increasing the likelihood of a united Ireland is against the national interest, but then that raises the issue of why the Conservatives acted in such a manner and Labour supported them.

Like you point out it's the UK who decided on this course of action, a course of action that I'd be surprised if anyone said they didn't know that it was incompatible with the GFA, despite the claims of Leavers that there was a magical technological solution, because of the need for NI being in a separate customs union than the rest of the UK if the supposed technological solution doesn't materialise.

That was always a possibility, much more so than i think people gave credit for, once parliament agreed to pull the trigger on A50 they set in motion a series of events that without legislating for what they wanted would result in a so called "no deal", they should have been aware that without legislation on the books dealing with what course of action the executive (the government) should take in the event of parliament being unable to agree what they want to do when the clock ticks down to zero that the executive could quiet legally sit on their hands.

Having said that it's probably more a way for the government to hold parliament over a barrel, they'll be saying to remain supports who don't want to vote for May's deal that if they don't they'll sit the clock out, and at the same time telling the extremists that if they don't vote for May's deal that parliament may tell them to call the whole thing off.

 

Any deal that can legally tie you into an arrangement indefinitely is not a 'deal'.

Especially when Macron has already said he'd use it in fishing rights negotiations and a Spanish ship has been sailing into Gibraltar blaring out the Spanish anthem - we'll be over a barrel and they're getting lubed up. Oh, and I don't blame them, of course they should take advantage in such a case.

But yeah, i'm not convinced all the text has been released...

Edit: We should stop pussyfooting around. The best deal we can get we already have, have a vote: 1 Leave on WTO 2 Stay in the EU.

Edit edit: Sounds like a Labour and LibDem MP have been reading my post

 

https://twitter.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1070094716274950144

So ehm in what decade will we make up our mind on what we actually want from Brexshit?

 

So tl-dr, whatever you present to the public... they won't like it.

 

It's hard enough to please ten people. Let alone 60-ish million. Or however many you can coerce into a poll about politics.

 

So May says we shouldn't have a new referendum with the new information available but if her deal is struck down she may put it through Parliament to be voted on for a second time.

Hm.

 

Decisions are only binding when it suits, changing of minds is only allowed when it suits.

 

The issue was a "Physical Border", e.g. border posts, etc. It's up to the UK if they want posts on their side of the border and they said they didn't. Ireland has also said that they will not be errecting border posts. It's not the UK or Ireland that insists on them but the EU, to inspect goods for single-market rules compliance.

While emotionally I'd like to see a United Ireland, I can see no current UK politician proposing to hand it over to Ireland (or is it to the EU?) against the mishes of what is still a majority of its population. That one is just nuts.

 

Saying that it's the EU who's insisting on a "Physical Border" is like saying it's everyone else who insists on your house having walls, doors, and windows because they won't respect your boundaries.

(Linky)

 

There's a big difference between wanting something and being legally obliged to have it.

Neither the UK nor RoI/EU *want* border posts and whatnot on the RoI/EU-NI/UK border. However the crux is whether or not international treaties [be it via the EU, WTO or other] oblige either/both sides to have them, and if so how they can then square that with the international treaty that says there absolutely can't be any [the GFA].

 

EU rules are clear, Ireland is required to protect the outer border of the EU.

The problem is that EU rules that existed already before Brexit automatically become incompatible with the GFA, Belfast Agreement and CTA if either Ireland or the UK leave the EU.
And since it is the UK leaving the club it is up to the UK to provide a solution.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it would be easy to give NI back, but what exactly are the alternatives?

Ask the EU to abolish its rule that the outer border of the EU should be protected?
Accept the 4 four freedoms for the entire UK in perpetuity?
Special status for NI (aka border down the Irish Sea)?

None of those would be any more popular with the current crop of politicians than giving NI back.

 

Whether NI stays in the UK or joins Ireland is not a question we have any right to answer, that's for the Northern Irish to determine for themselves.

We can't cut them off arbitrarily, they're British Citizens at the moment.

I would suggest they, and Scotland for that matter, should seriously consider where they wish their future to lay. Funnily enough I think I may be up in Scotland on Brexit day, at least grumpy will have company.

 

From the Guardian:

 

IIRC there was another survey that stated 'No deal' was only as popular it was as an outcome because most of the people asked assumed 'No deal' == 'No Brexit'

 

ITV scrap the 'debate' plans as well.

I mean, it's daft. She's trying to peddle a worse deal than we have versus leaving with no deal. The reality is it is leave with no deal or stay. About time we were asked again.

 

No deal is better than a bad deal, i bet she regrets using that sound-bite now.

 

I'm sincerely hoping for another referendum, because the wheels have fallen off, the pig has **** all over it, and run off with the truffle.

And maybe, two years down the line, some of those 16/17 year olds that couldn't vote before can tip the scales.

 

meanwhile 65% of Northern Irish voters would welcome a Brexit that kept the province “closely tied to the EU, inside the single market and the customs union, while Britain has a more arms-length arrangement”. So regardless of what the DUP says, N.I. voters would be quite happy with a separate arrangement or border down the Irish sea.

 

It's typical for her to make stupid decisions and statements that come back to haunt her. "Citizens of nowhere", her red lines, "no deal is better than a bad deal", "queue jumpers" etc.

 

The good morning laugh of today comes from Corbyn, who wrote about his preferred flavour of Brexit in the Guardian (actually yesterday, but who cares):

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...yn-general-election-brexit-labour-theresa-may

So uhm he wants to leave and make a deal that is equal to remaining?


Dear Corbyn, you've had more than two years to make up your mind if you want to promote leave or remain... pick one already and stop promoting unicorns.