E.U: Leave or Stay? Your thoughts.

Brexiteers seem to adjust their ideas of that as time goes on but Jacob Rees-Mogg seemed to have about fifty years in mind. Then again, Nigel Farage seems to think it's more like "never".

Still, blue passports, right?
Which the UK could have had anyway.
Made in France.

 

You mean the NHS treatment none of them will be eligible for as the don't meet the 'Habitual Residence' requirements?

 

Yup, that one. Damn expats, coming over here, taking our place in the NHS queue...

 

You'd think out of everyone at least they'd be able to say where it has gone so wrong and how to fix it.

People who wanted to leave because of 'reasons' better step up to the plate soon and start telling everyone what we should all be doing as if this all goes down the pan they'll be the ones who ultimately get the blame.

 

By Leavers most of all: "You told us to vote Leave because there would be cake! Where's our cake!?!"

 

I suspect they won't, a majority of leave voters still believe there's going to be cake, maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, but they still believe much in the same way Christians, and other people of faith, believe a deity is going to reward or punish them in the after-life for their actions.

It's the non-believers who are going to sharpen their pitchforks and come knocking when what the believers told them was true turns out to be anything but.

 

Many Leave voters are not BeLeavers, but people who were suckered into believing that they'd be better off out. As for the BeLeavers, we know what religious believers do to a messiah who fails to deliver...

Trust me: it'll get messy.

 

My point is believers will continue to believe, no matter what. Yes there'll be some people who lose faith but the majority will not, they'll believe in Brexit nirvana until their dying days.

Ask yourself this: When ISIS extremists go on a killing spree who is it the majority of people blame? Is it Islam, ISIS, or the people who did the killing?

 

Islam, I would say.

There will be a hard core of BeLeavers who, if anything, will become more fervent in their faith the more hardship they suffer. Cognitive dissonance reduction, etc. There will be a lot of "We were betrayed" and "It would have worked if it was the right kind of Brexit, done right by the right people (somehow)". And they will keep agitating for more change... in some undefined, hazy and contradictory way, just like during the referendum.


But the less crazy will seek a scapegoat for their own bad choices. They'll seek to abdicate blame. After all Brexit is driven by a sense of victimhood and junkie logic: it is always someone else's fault. And the UK government is simply a closer target to kick than the distant EU.

 

On that point we disagree then.

IMO the majority primarily blame ISIS and the people who believe or follow that particularly radical interpretation of the Islamic faith, yes some people blame Islam but IMO the majority of rational thinking people, and lets face it rational thinking people are less likely to be swayed by belief systems, know the difference between ISIS and the Islamic faith.

I'm not talking about only the leave voters though, I'm talking about society as a whole, the less crazy may well seek a scapegoat and try to blame the UK government or whoever but when the angry mob gathers they're very unlikely to self identify as one of the people the mob is looking for.

 

Most people tend to blame - Muslims, ISIS [whether it was ISIS or not responsible] the individuals responsible... in that order.

 

Really, i would have thought once you excluded the irrational, who by their nature are more likely to be swayed by a belief system, that it would be reversed.

 

You over-estimate the rationality of the populace.

 

The way I see it, if you imagine people lying on a continuum from irrational to rational, those at the irrational end blame Islam. Those at the rational end blame ISIS. Unfortunately, most people are towards the irrational end. Average reading age of 9 (12 for the employed), average IQ of 100, emotional and moral reasoning to match.

I think that there is (again) a continuum between principled Leave (at any cost), and principled Remain (at any cost). In between are Leavers who were convinced that the UK would benefit, and Remainers who feared the UK would be damaged. So there will be BeLeavers who will continue to push for a more hard-line Leave, and are prepared to suffer for it --in fact they exalt in suffering. They'll be extremely pissed at government for doing Brexit "wrong" and also blame imagined Remain conspirators/traitors. There will be Leavers who feel cheated and betrayed --they will just be pissed at government for lying to them. There will be Remainers who will feel vindicated and angry at government, and hardcore Remainers who will, like BeLeavers, entrench more in their beliefs the worse things get, and will be extremely pissed at government and Leavers alike.

 

Could well have, although that leaves me wondering what we've been teaching children in schools, you'd think problem solving would've featured pretty highly but apparently not.

 

Lists of names and dates mainly. And how to answer standardised questions with the requisite answer.

Knowing every king and queen of England might serve you well in a pub quiz but that's about it.

 

It's cultural indoctrination. Know your heritage, know your hierarchy, know your place.

 

Brexit: The gift that keeps on giving...

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...preparing-no-deal-brexit-ordered-to-sign-ndas

 

Not the first AFAIK, loads of companies, NGO's and people have been forced to sign NDA's.

You can't control what you're unaware of. #takebackcontrol.

 

Basically the root problem with Brexit: unknown unknowns = unconscious incompetence.